Comments on: Third gender by On Nutter http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/ drink and blog Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:44:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: nurseRon http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-181423 nurseRon Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:43:04 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-181423 Amazing how much has changed in so little time! Amazing how much has changed in so little time!
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]]> By: Young Penfold http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-67428 Young Penfold Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:44:00 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-67428 I knew an extremely well off LB who turned to the life of a katoey from the age of around 4-5 as she grew up on a farm with 4 sisters and no brothers. She said she felt left out and isolated as she couldnt 'play' then she let her teenage sisters dress her up and do make-up on her, and it spiralled from there. I doubt this is the case of every LB, but one of the instances i came across (not literally) I knew an extremely well off LB who turned to the life of a katoey from the age of around 4-5 as she grew up on a farm with 4 sisters and no brothers. She said she felt left out and isolated as she couldnt ‘play’ then she let her teenage sisters dress her up and do make-up on her, and it spiralled from there.
I doubt this is the case of every LB, but one of the instances i came across (not literally)
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]]> By: R. J. http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-67256 R. J. Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:40:15 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-67256 Smitty, Respect, we know common people , however your answer is merely conspiracy theory. I believe in basic need and the dynamics that follows. Smitty,
Respect, we know common people , however your answer is merely conspiracy theory. I believe in basic need and the dynamics that follows.
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]]> By: smitty http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-67006 smitty Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:02:20 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-67006 rj - a long time(30+ years) bkk expat reckons that the surge in LBs began when the CP group started using hormones in the chicken. There u go... rj – a long time(30+ years) bkk expat reckons that the surge in LBs began when the CP group started using hormones in the chicken. There u go…
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]]> By: R. J. http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66925 R. J. Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:48:04 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66925 Has anyone ever tried to figure out the reasons why we see an upserge in LB behaviour? Could it be that girls get the money for spreading their legs to farangs while the boys can go and whistle. How does a young Thai boy from a poor area see his way to financial security from the male viewpoint, working all his life on a farm with chickens as his only company and future? I feel sure the sex industry is a more exciting and rewarding occupation. This "third sex" argument can be substituted with green eyed sexual jealousy coupled with a duplicitous need for foreign money. Has anyone ever tried to figure out the reasons why we see an upserge in LB behaviour?
Could it be that girls get the money for spreading their legs to farangs while the boys can go and whistle. How does a young Thai boy from a poor area see his way to financial security from the male viewpoint, working all his life on a farm with chickens as his only company and future?
I feel sure the sex industry is a more exciting and rewarding occupation.
This “third sex” argument can be substituted with green eyed sexual jealousy coupled with a duplicitous need for foreign money.
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]]> By: Jimmy Cricket http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66747 Jimmy Cricket Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:44:31 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66747 Here's an academic site on 'transgenders': http://web.hku.hk/~sjwinter/TransgenderASIA/index.htm Scroll to the bottom and there are interviews with LBs not in the bar scene. Here’s an academic site on ‘transgenders’:

http://web.hku.hk/~sjwinter/TransgenderASIA/index.htm

Scroll to the bottom and there are interviews with LBs not in the bar scene.
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]]> By: Mark http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66680 Mark Sun, 03 Feb 2008 09:36:27 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66680 I found the article to be well written and a good introduction to the general conditions a LB in the P4P industry faces. I was impressed with her communication skills. Like most things we are unfamiliar with we tend to fear, mock, belittle, trivialize them in an effort to deal with our fear and ignorance. On Nutter did none of these things, other than a dig or two, and presented Bang's story as it is, in her own words. I wouldn't worry too much about those Asian TS Forum contributors; they all pretty much drink the same Kool-Aid and follow their revered leaders' in their own little Jonestown. (following on smitty's thoughts) There are between 85,000 and 300,000 LB's in Thailand. (I've seen the 85,000 figure in a government publication, and think that might have come from military exemptions, one official source. The 300,000 figure was mentioned as a quote, perhaps from someone who knows nothing, in an article in The Nation ~ 1 year ago.) Only a tiny percentage work in the P4P industry, maybe 2.5% at most? Additionally there is a whole rainbow of gender/sexual indentity/preferences blurring which makes it difficult to fit every person into one of two or three compartments. Just one example: in my neighborhood there is a 40 YO man who everyone, including 'her'-self, refers to as a ladyboy. He looks like a regular Thai man to me. If you speak with Matayom 1 - 6 (age 12 - 18) teachers in government schools you often hear figures of two or three LB's in a male class of 35 ~ 40, and there are plenty of role models in the entertainment (music, TV, movies) industry, so it figures that the numbers of LB's are increasing. Re: Thailand's tolerance for LB's, understand that there is a huge difference between tolerance and acceptance. Most families come to accept a family member who is a LB, which only illustrates the importance of the family here, but not all. Thai-Chinese families tend to be the least accepting. Lastly, there are a boatload of post-Ops working at the non-LB bars in NEP, and at King's Corner in Patpong, and a couple of tuk-tuks full in Cowboy. These gals seem to be star performers, many times leading the bar in monthly BF's. Many/most(?) customers do not know the true gender of the person they just had sex with. Pre-Ops also have a host of tricks to fool unwitting customers. I'm not familiar with the publication, or the editorial/publishing goals, but follow-up interviews with Post-Ops, and LB's working outside the P4P industry might be appropriate? I found the article to be well written and a good introduction to the general conditions a LB in the P4P industry faces. I was impressed with her communication skills. Like most things we are unfamiliar with we tend to fear, mock, belittle, trivialize them in an effort to deal with our fear and ignorance. On Nutter did none of these things, other than a dig or two, and presented Bang’s story as it is, in her own words.

I wouldn’t worry too much about those Asian TS Forum contributors; they all pretty much drink the same Kool-Aid and follow their revered leaders’ in their own little Jonestown. (following on smitty’s thoughts)

There are between 85,000 and 300,000 LB’s in Thailand. (I’ve seen the 85,000 figure in a government publication, and think that might have come from military exemptions, one official source. The 300,000 figure was mentioned as a quote, perhaps from someone who knows nothing, in an article in The Nation ~ 1 year ago.) Only a tiny percentage work in the P4P industry, maybe 2.5% at most? Additionally there is a whole rainbow of gender/sexual indentity/preferences blurring which makes it difficult to fit every person into one of two or three compartments. Just one example: in my neighborhood there is a 40 YO man who everyone, including ‘her’-self, refers to as a ladyboy. He looks like a regular Thai man to me.

If you speak with Matayom 1 – 6 (age 12 – 18) teachers in government schools you often hear figures of two or three LB’s in a male class of 35 ~ 40, and there are plenty of role models in the entertainment (music, TV, movies) industry, so it figures that the numbers of LB’s are increasing.

Re: Thailand’s tolerance for LB’s, understand that there is a huge difference between tolerance and acceptance. Most families come to accept a family member who is a LB, which only illustrates the importance of the family here, but not all. Thai-Chinese families tend to be the least accepting.

Lastly, there are a boatload of post-Ops working at the non-LB bars in NEP, and at King’s Corner in Patpong, and a couple of tuk-tuks full in Cowboy. These gals seem to be star performers, many times leading the bar in monthly BF’s. Many/most(?) customers do not know the true gender of the person they just had sex with. Pre-Ops also have a host of tricks to fool unwitting customers.

I’m not familiar with the publication, or the editorial/publishing goals, but follow-up interviews with Post-Ops, and LB’s working outside the P4P industry might be appropriate?
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]]> By: smitty http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66582 smitty Sun, 03 Feb 2008 02:36:49 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66582 ladyboys are a huge fascination indeed. what I don't understand is people in the forum flaming the blog and the messenger for someone like on nutter writing up a personal interview that was in no way negative to the LB or LB customers. It was just a simple interview and very interesting for people who have no idea about the scene. I think they could have tried harder to see it for what it was and offer some constructive responses or even offer up a better view - if there is one according to them. They way they respond makes the group look like the strange fanatical faction that it is furthering a stigma that probably would not exist otherwise. ladyboys are a huge fascination indeed. what I don’t understand is people in the forum flaming the blog and the messenger for someone like on nutter writing up a personal interview that was in no way negative to the LB or LB customers. It was just a simple interview and very interesting for people who have no idea about the scene. I think they could have tried harder to see it for what it was and offer some constructive responses or even offer up a better view – if there is one according to them.

They way they respond makes the group look like the strange fanatical faction that it is furthering a stigma that probably would not exist otherwise.
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]]> By: Young Penfold http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66468 Young Penfold Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:42:44 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66468 Granted On Nutters piece wasnt what you could call groundbreaking......... what the fuck do they expect from an interview with a bar-whore? them quoting shakespear? I agree with On Nutter that the whores have far more varied and interesting stories then the non p4p LBs, but is he'd of interviewed a 'straight-laced' ladyboy she'd of reported she works 9-5 and is tucked up by 11pm everynight?? that would of been a rivetting read wouldnt it? After trawling through the ladyboy forum, the validity of his critisism were shot to shit when i stumbled on the 'trip report' section.......... seeing the same 50year old somethings that were tearing strips off him posting pix of themselves grabbing their skinny white ankles and having their dinner pushed up really threw there judgemwnt into question Granted On Nutters piece wasnt what you could call groundbreaking……… what the fuck do they expect from an interview with a bar-whore? them quoting shakespear?

I agree with On Nutter that the whores have far more varied and interesting stories then the non p4p LBs, but is he’d of interviewed a ’straight-laced’ ladyboy she’d of reported she works 9-5 and is tucked up by 11pm everynight?? that would of been a rivetting read wouldnt it?

After trawling through the ladyboy forum, the validity of his critisism were shot to shit when i stumbled on the ‘trip report’ section………. seeing the same 50year old somethings that were tearing strips off him posting pix of themselves grabbing their skinny white ankles and having their dinner pushed up really threw there judgemwnt into question
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]]> By: yesman http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66446 yesman Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:43:41 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2008/01/31/third-gender-by-on-nutter/#comment-66446 I love ladyboy bars.....How many people back home can start a story with" So me and a buddy are at this bar full of trannys` God bless them all! I love ladyboy bars…..How many people back home can start a story with” So me and a buddy are at this bar full of trannys`
God bless them all!
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