How to send money to your Thai girlfriend from the US (or the world) for a total of 25 baht! by Dutchy

Posted by Dutchy | Blog, Reader Submissions | Posted on March 6th, 2010

This process took me a few weeks to work out and finally test.  It all works, is legal, and lets you send money Bank-to-Bank for $0.65. Now who doesn’t like that? The banks of course, so please do not over use.

How? You need your own PayPal account, linked to your US bank, so you can add funds to your PayPal account. Do this first, as it takes 3-4 business days to move the money. Good thing, it is free! Any sane world traveler should have a PayPal, if it were only to buy goodies on Ebay.

As you want to be in control of the girlfriends PayPal, you start by creating a Hotmail account for her. Set up all the info correct for your girlfriend, just keep the user-id and password for yourself. Validate you can communicate with this account by sending email to it and then replying back.

Next, create a PayPal account for your girlfriend. Now it is important that you use the same address information as she has on her own Bank account. She has no Bank account? Take her to the closest Bank branch and open a savings account with ATM card. But again, keep the user-id and password to yourself, as you want to stay in control of this account.

Once created, add her Bank account to her PayPal account. There are 2 ways to validate the link between PayPal and the Bank account, and PayPal requires one. 1st, if your girlfriend has a valid Thai Credit Card (unlikely), you can guarantee the Bank account with it. More practical is to have PayPal validate the Bank account. PayPal does this by sending 2 small (less than 1 baht) deposits to her Bank account. You will need your girlfriend to get the transaction amounts. It can take up to 5 days for these deposits to arrive. Once you have the amounts, log on to her PayPal, validate her Bank account by entering the amounts.

Now you can add funds to your PayPal from your Bank, for free, takes 3-5 days. Then send money to your girlfriends PayPal account, in Thai Bath, for a
fee of 25 baht, it is immediate. Note, the first time you send money, you will have to accept it in her PayPal. Then withdraw funds from your girlfriends PayPal to her bank. If over 5000 baht, it is free, takes 3-4 days. What, you send her less than 5000baht at a time? You cheapo, you deserve to have to pay 50baht for this.

If your girlfriend is internet saffy (again unlikely), you can have her control her email and PayPal account. Saves you from having to keep track of things. Gives her the opportunity to screw the whole thing up….

Start saving money !



57 Responses to “How to send money to your Thai girlfriend from the US (or the world) for a total of 25 baht! by Dutchy”

  1. Radicalron says:

    I strongly recommend against sending any TG money. Even if she is your Teruk!
    = You have been warned!

    View all comments by Radicalron

  2. ratchada says:

    PayPal is quite useful..but beware, they’ve recently stepped up their “fraud prevention” measures, and this can be a pain in the ass for the world traveler…

    I logged in to my PayPal account to check the balance while I was in Cambodia last December (I keep money in there for emergency purposes while traveling, in case something happens to one of my bank ATM cards…I have a debit/ATM card for he Paypal account as well). Big mistake. Seeing the login come from a Cambodian IP address caused them to flag my account for “suspicious activity,” and they put a hold on my balance.

    That hold could only be removed by “confirming my location” in the US…except, I wasn’t fucking IN the US, I was Cambodia (and then Thailand)! I followed the instructions to do this by phone, using my Skype-In number (which is a US number). No good, didn’t work. And they only give you one shot. Next step: they inform me that they’ve mailed a code to the US contact address they have for me (once I get the code and enter it in, the hold will be released). Problem: I’m not at that address right now (nor is anyone else), I’m in Fucking Thailand!

    Turns out I needed some of that emergency money on that trip, too. Royal pain in the ass. Anyway, like I said, PayPal is useful, but beware.

    Finally, to respond to the post:

    1) @Radicalron: agreed, definitely bad idea to send a TG money. Especially a BG, because no matter what she tells you, and no matter HOW MUCH you send her, she will continue to fuck for money in Thailand. Guaranteed.

    2) @Dutchy: if your girl is “internet saffy,” maybe she’d even know how to spell savvy, haha

    View all comments by ratchada

  3. Pants Elk says:

    The cheapest method of giving Thai women cash, without involving banks at all, is by tucking a couple thousand baht in their underwear. Such is their gratitude for your largesse they will cheerfully service you sexually, for free!

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  4. robert says:

    I agree pay pal sux big time ,i mean its tyour money and they make you jump through flaming hoops to prove is you ,even when no money changes hand,wankers.

    View all comments by robert

  5. mart says:

    Kudos to this smart Thai girl who has reinvented online payment!
    http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/cas/1627706194.html
    I’m in love already!

    View all comments by mart

  6. johno says:

    Pay Pal is a freakin’ pain in the ass. I used the service about a hundred times for ebay purchases. The rates passed on to the recipient can be pretty high too. They have fire hoops you need to jump thru all in the name of security. Xoom sucks too. After a successful transaction, I recently received an email stating the termination of my account because I ‘violated’ some term of the agreement. No chance for an explanation, no appeal process. Fuck you Xoom.

    View all comments by johno

  7. Professor says:

    While understand the mechanics of these funds transfers to reduce cost, I have one problem with the concept of “your” Thai girlfriend.

    If a Thai girl is not Internet savvy, has no bank account or credit card, my experience has been that she is “everyones’ Thai girlfriend” and I am not sure why I would want to send her money.

    Instead, I like to hand the money directly to “everyones’ girlfriend” in person, and in cash.

    View all comments by Professor

  8. Scampering Jack Wilshere says:

    Yes, Pay Pal’s security is annoying, but considering the amount of fraud attempts you have to deal with I can’t say I blame them all that much. As far as advice about dealing with money abroad. I get a Visa travel credit card before I leave and put a decent sized chunk on it, but small enough that I won’t kill myself it it gets stolen. Then CALL THE BANK ISSUER NUMBER ON THE BACK OF THE CARD AND TELL THEM WHAT COUNTRIES YOU ARE TRAVELING TO. At least if you run into problems there will be a flag on the card that it is going to be used overseas. Then withdraw from ATMs as needed.

    If it needs topped off over the course of travel you, indeed, should make the renewal from an IP address from the country where you got the card. There are two easy ways to do this. First, use a US/UK/whatever proxy server, you can search for free ones online and find a more or less reliable one after a few tries. Second, and better if you can, is VPN to your work VPN, that way all traffic not only looks like it’s coming from your office, it’s encrypted to boot. Third, if you have a friend you really trust, change your email and bank password before leaving and have the friend do all of those transactions for you. Just don’t forget to change your passwords when you get back.

    Lastly, if you’re more tech savvy and have the tools, the US gubment has become increasingly nosy about computers when going through customs. Because I have an IT background, I take an image of my laptop before I leave, install a fresh copy of Debian or Ubuntu on it, and toss the install disk in my bag. Then the day before I fly home I reimage with a fresh linux install (takes 20 minutes, mostly unattended) and Johnny Fed is welcome to whatever he can find on my laptop, and at the same time I can be IM’ing Hezbollah on the road if I want. Not that that’s a good of course. Sadly, this doesn’t work when I need to do some kinds of work on the road, but it’s great for vacation only trips.

    View all comments by Scampering Jack Wilshere

  9. Bkkpartyboy says:

    Who the hell is DUMB enough to send a Thai chick money! Wow…PT Barnum was right.

    View all comments by Bkkpartyboy

  10. ratchada says:

    @SJW: generally good advice, however:

    -the banks that issue my ATM/debit cards do accept advance travel notification, which is fine for things like ATM withdrawals, but the fraud-protection monitoring companies that they contract out to (I hate that shit) to monitor purchases do NOT accept such notification…so I try not to use my debit card for purchases in Thailand and Cambodia, because it often means I have to deal with the monitoring company over the phone to get holds removed, etc., a real hassle

    -I do have VPN through work and use it for all money-related activity done on my laptop while abroad. However, I never bring my laptop to Cambodia, I leave it in Bangkok; when I checked my PayPal balance and got into all that trouble it was from the computer in the lobby of my hotel. Now I know better not to log in to PayPal from random computers in Cambodia!

    View all comments by ratchada

  11. Dutchy says:

    To all; yes, be very cautious about sending money to Thai Girls.
    But on rare occasion, you may find a good one, I have heard of this.
    Sending money to your own bankok bank account can also me usefull.

    Rachada: as my name implies, my native language is not english.
    Although already 25+ years in US, I still am stumbled at times by spelling.
    But from now on I will now how to be savvy.

    Good to hear about problems with PayPal. I have been lucky so far.
    Scampering Jack, good tip about VPN.

    View all comments by Dutchy

  12. Scampering Jack Wilshere says:

    @ ratchada – I’m sure you’re info is more up to date than mine, so I’ll defer to you. The worst I ever ran into was a three day stopover in Indonesia. I ran one credit card at a (legit) hotel and you’d have thought interpol had a warrant out for me. Have been lucky, I guess, while traveling in Thailand.

    View all comments by Scampering Jack Wilshere

  13. Gringo N Mex says:

    @ Mart

    I clicked on the link and got the message profile deleted by author. Care to provide details?

    I have probably used Paypal over 500 times (based on my ebay rating) and only had one problem. I did use it to transfer money internationally and I checked my balance from Mexico without having any problems. I don’t remember exact details but a few years ago I had an e-bay transaction that went bad and somehow the buyer got ahold of my password and drained the account. I was selling NFL tickets so there was a pretty good amount of money in the account. I contacted Paypal and they were able to see that the person with the password had logged on from England with an ISP address that had never been used on my account. I had to notarize an affidavit and mail it to them in order to get my money back. They were polite, professional, and helpful. I probably got my money back in less than two weeks.

    View all comments by Gringo N Mex

  14. SukPsycho says:

    Alternatively send me the money and I will deliver it to your girl for free. Well, at least free for you ;)

    View all comments by SukPsycho

  15. Young Penfold says:

    @Dutchy – “be very cautious about sending money to Thai Girls”

    I get bored of sex-tourists (such as yourself) tarring all Thai girls with the same brush. Just because the only class of Thai girl you knock around with, are the kind that you have to give money too, doesnt mean you have to label them all the same.

    View all comments by Young Penfold

  16. mart says:

    Gringo – oh yes, too bad. Basically the girl was offering camsex in exchange for money. Her proposed method of payment is prepaid mobile phone top-up cards. One would buy a card at a convenience store, send her the digits via instant messenger and the transaction is completed. As Thai mobile credits are transferable from one number to another, she can resell the credits.

    View all comments by mart

  17. Daywalker says:

    YP.. that reminds me… didn’t you borrow some money off me? ;)

    View all comments by Daywalker

  18. Wombat says:

    Why not use a post office box?

    View all comments by Wombat

  19. WFTM says:

    wombat – are u suggesting sending money in the mail?

    View all comments by WFTM

  20. pmmp says:

    @WFTM: Are you suggesting it’s not safe to? What could possibly go wrong? :)

    View all comments by pmmp

  21. NT says:

    I think its ok for them to send T/G money if your on the receiving end from their ATM. What comes around goes around in my case! I love it.

    View all comments by NT

  22. rope-a-dope says:

    I’m with yp…sex tourists suck! By the way, don’t ever send money to a filipino lady. :-)

    View all comments by rope-a-dope

  23. Daywalker says:

    Here is one to think about…….

    You date some Thai brass… send her cash see her half a dozen times a year and split up after a few years. Add up the cost.

    Your pal gets married, set up home, get a dog and nice little Volkswagen. You split up after a few years. Add up the cost.

    1) Which person has spent the most?
    2) Which person had the least amount of sex?
    3) Which person has to continue paying out the bird he is no longer with?

    I intend to give money to as many Thai girls as I can afford to. Love them all!

    NT, so… about your girl….. should I pay you direct? ;)

    View all comments by Daywalker

  24. nurseRon says:

    @ Daywalker! Amen dude!!! Does the UK have the same silly divorce laws as we do in states?

    View all comments by nurseRon

  25. Daywalker says:

    nurseRon, I am not sure if the UK divorce laws are as severe as the U.S laws, but any law that lets the bitch have anything she is not entitled to sucks.

    I once hoofed out my girlfriend after a few years of misery (why do we do that?) and as we were not married she was entitled to fooook all. She said “you’ve left me in the gutter”. Which I responded… “no, I just returned you”

    Women… can’t live with them… and can’t cut them up into little pieces and put them in the blender.

    View all comments by Daywalker

  26. DaffyDuck says:

    Wombat and Pmmp are right — I have it on VERY GOOD authority that the best way to send money to TGs is by mailing it to them via a post office box. It makes the most economic sense, doesn’t it?

    View all comments by DaffyDuck

  27. ratchada says:

    Once, a close BG friend of mine was proposed to by a farang tourist (after he only knew her a week). After returning to his country, he sent her 1 million baht–yeah, you read that right–for her to pay for wedding preparations, put a down payment on a condo for them to live in, etc. He was supposed to come back to Thailand in a few months.

    She continued fucking for money throughout those few months, not convinced that he was “for real”.

    You may scoff at her as cold and heartless–even many of her BG friends did!–but in the end, he called the wedding off, saying he had hooked up with an old (farang) flame back in his country in the interim. He didn’t ask for any of the money back…good thing, because it was quickly all “borrowed” by members of her family. I even borrowed a little from her–though, unlike her family, I paid her back.

    The moral is, no matter HOW MUCH you send them, they keep working. ALWAYS.

    View all comments by ratchada

  28. Leosia says:

    Can’t think of any situation in which you would send a Thai girl money from overseas unless she was your wife – in which case you would just go online and transfer cash from your Thai bank account to hers.

    Any Westerner who does send money to a Thai girl is clearly with the wrong type of Thai girl (because she wants money because she doesn’t have a real job) and should have his head examined because she will be earning money in other ways too.

    View all comments by Leosia

  29. Radicalron says:

    Well this debate seems to have some legs, so I will chime in a bit further. i wont mention Bargirls = as this has been covered extensively on this forum, and many others.
    I have done the “Good Girl” thing in Thailand for a fairly long spell. And Yes – I too have been duped in to sending a TG money. I heard it all – Everything from the old mom’s hospital bills, visa preparation fees, to the sick water buffalo routine. The point is – that once you cross that threshold of sending a TG baht – You will then be expected to send baht consistently forever! When the time finally comes (and it definitely will) where you cant/wont send her baht for whatever reason – She will then say ‘he no love me anymore” and will go out and find herself another sponsor. The only real way I can see to maintain a “Good” Girlfriend in Thailand is to just move here.
    I currently spend half of each year in Bangers having fun, and the other half in the USA making money. I have found that it is much cheaper and funner overall – to have a mix of the occasional “good” girl, freelancer, and even a few Go Go girls just for varieties sake. And No – I never ever send them funds from overseas.

    As always = your mileage may vary.

    View all comments by Radicalron

  30. ratchada says:

    @nobody in particular: as long as there is a spineless pussy of a pathetic, balding, overweight middle-aged farang male out there who has nothing better to do than bitch about how “a heartless farang woman screwed him over and ruined his life (boo-hoo-FUCKING-hoo)”, then the feminists and other self-righteous farang moralists who complain about how such a stereotype fits all of us who pursue pussy-for-pay in Thailand will always be just a little bit right…man up and get over it, bitches!! haha…

    View all comments by ratchada

  31. SBDOTKU says:

    After reading the strident advice provided, should someone still be interested in sending money, there is an offer currently in the U.S. by Chase Bank (FKA: Washington Mutual). They allow you to send money via international wire (i.e. to any bank account in another country) for free.

    View all comments by SBDOTKU

  32. The Man says:

    Sweet Jesus!!!!! Never in 76 years have I heard such bullshit. Why would anyone living some place other than Thailand send a fucking dime to some bimbo here?
    It’s bad enough that we are paying for them to get a nut and enjoying a decent fuck.
    Everyone on here knows that they lie through their teeth at the drop of a hat, if only to see how stupid we are.
    Never, never send a Asian honey a penny, they just think your stupid, if she’s fucking you when your here you can bet your ass that she’s fucking someone else when your gone. If you believe otherwise, you better put the bong down, it’s fried you brain.

    View all comments by The Man

  33. Poodle says:

    It’s not true that all bar girls will be out fucking for money as soon as you go home. Some of them fuck for free whilst being sponsored. I say to all tourists send as much, as often to as many skanks you can.

    View all comments by Poodle

  34. Pants Elk says:

    Before moving out here, I Western-Unioned a Thai whore some money, telling her that was all I had to give, and there wasn’t any more. On MSN chat, she said she’d wait for me, darling, and I said, bollocks, darling, do your job. I kept in contact with her, and when I came back to Bangkok we met a few times. I never regretted sending her money – it was money that my ex-wife never saw, and we tend to forget that Thailand is a relatively poor country. Sex tourists get a lot of hate and moralising judgement from, mainly, a bunch of issue-infested white women, but sex tourists help more poor people in a very direct way than any number of Concerned Women coming out here without a fucking clue how the sex industry works.

    If you want to send a whore money, go ahead. But do it knowing all it’s doing is good, and not necessarily for you. If you’re married to a white woman, you should send all your money to Thai whores right now, because it’s better than losing it to lawyers later. Oh – and my sympathy. Really. If you knew what you’re missing, you’d be on the next plane over.

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  35. doctorbond says:

    It confuses my world view when Pants Elk comes out with a straight comment. Is grass still green?

    View all comments by doctorbond

  36. NT says:

    @ Daywalker >>> Western Union or direct to me is ok lol.

    View all comments by NT

  37. Pants Elk says:

    @doctorbond – are you calling my comments gay?

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  38. Pants Elk says:

    Double-dip: on the subject of gay comments – Penfold asked me not to mention him, or jump into the comments every time I saw his name there, because it was getting embarrassing for him, like the whole world knew of my intense Gay Love for the cortisone-pumped bit of rough. I’d like to say right now that even typing his name gives me a hard-on like a buffalo horn. P-E-N-F-O-L-D ——- fapfapfapwhuuuuUUUUUUUMMMMP!

    - brb – tissue issues – - -

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  39. mart says:

    My sponsored kik has just left my place to go to Phuket with one of her “boyfriends”. She makes well over 100K a month (from 4 boyfriends, doing basically NOTHING) and would never ever dare ask me for a penny. All I ever gave her were 3K after the first 3 nights I spent with her one year ago. She expects me to be faithful to her though (obviously, I am not) and would most definitely kill me if she ever saw me with another girl. Luckily that has never happened and she lives in Pattaya so it’s not too likely to happen either. Now she’s in Phuket for 3 weeks, I can shag in Pattaya, albeit discreetly (bargirls grapewine is even more present in Patts than in BKK).

    Pants – as long as u knew what u were doing, I see no reason to blame you.
    On the humanitarian aspect of sponsoring, I’m much more skeptical. Thai working gals are certainly not the worst off people in Thai society. That is unless you decide to sponsor old, unattractive beer bar girls who haven’t found a German boyfriend when they were young enough to (<40 years old) which I highly doubt you would do…

    View all comments by mart

  40. WFTM says:

    pe – u r killing me.

    mart – so let me get this straight – she has issues if u r with other girls but she is cool to make her coin selling the gash? okay. I have heard it all now.

    View all comments by WFTM

  41. mart says:

    WFTM – sure, nothing surprising here, TIT. The reasoning behind that being: she sells her pussy, she does not give it away. Basically: it’s her job and if I want her to stop working, I should be able and willing to compensate for the loss of income. Kinda logical…

    View all comments by mart

  42. Pants Elk says:

    I gave money not caring where it finished up, but with a pretty clear idea – the usual split between family (there’s a certain tiled floor in an Isaan home that should have my name set in it), rent, phone, drugs … at least none of it got skimmed by admin or taxes or lawyers. No, Thai whores aren’t the worst-off individuals on the planet, but I don’t want to fuck lepers in Darfur. Call me hypocritical.

    (P-E-N-F-O-L-D —— unnnnnnnhhhhhrrrrrrrrr —–)

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  43. mart says:

    I don’t expect you to fuck lepers in Darfur dear Pants. Was just saying that the humanitarian argument is a bit thin. Send money if you want, fuck who you want but don’t believe Thai whores need this money. They want it but they don’t need it.
    I know what my girl makes with her sponsors’ money: very little for rent and food, a bit more for the family and building a new house in Udon and loads for absolutely unnecessary stuff like make-up, phones, fake nails, haircut, nights out with her complete posse, utterly stupid magazines and yaba pills for her older sister. Oh yes and of course the occasional bottle of Jack for me. I’d much prefer wine and cheese but she wouldn’t know which ones to choose.

    View all comments by mart

  44. Hunch644 says:

    @mart: Once visiting a thai chick (out of Rainbow 1) at her On Nut Pied a Terre, I thought it would be somewhat convivial to bring with me a Stilton and a bottle of Fetzer Sauvignon (1995). After her tape deck chewed up my Manhattan Transfer, she lobbed ice cubes in the Fetzer and proceeded to tuck into the Stilton WITHOUT using the cheese spoon I’d provided!

    View all comments by Hunch644

  45. pmmp says:

    doctorbond said: “It confuses my world view when Pants Elk comes out with a straight comment. Is grass still green?” – I have to agree. What the hell is going on? I can’t punch him in the face now. This sucks.

    View all comments by pmmp

  46. mart says:

    Hunch – Bringing a Thai bargirl delicacies, good one! Hope you didn’t forget the latest issue of the Times Literary.
    Stilton? In which part of France is that one produced? :D

    View all comments by mart

  47. Katechon says:

    Pants Elk, are you related to Penfold by either marriage or birth? (or more likely, both?)

    View all comments by Katechon

  48. Pants Elk says:

    @pmmp: Bring it on, frat-boy. @mart: there is a “humanitarian” aspect to sex-tourism, in as much as it’s a direct injection (fnarr!) of cash into a poorer country than your own (unless you’re from Darfur). Which is more than most “outreach” organisations do. Of what actual help is the (uh …) “women’s movement” to whores in SEA? And your definition of absolutely unnecessary stuff – well, isn’t pretty much anything “unnecessary” after you have a roof over your head and a full belly? Just sayin’.
    @Katechon: Penfold is my Gay Dream. I like him to suckle my hairy old man-cans. He makes me lactate. But that’s as far as our relationship goes.

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  49. mart says:

    Pants – Health care, dental care, education and sport for example are unnecessary as well but there’s little doubt that they make much more sense than fake nails and funky haircuts.

    View all comments by mart

  50. Pants Elk says:

    mart – just a question here – are you a woman?

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  51. mart says:

    Pants – My name is Martine, nice to meet you.

    View all comments by mart

  52. doctorbond says:

    tha… tha… that’s all folks… tune in next week for more of….
    …. The PANTS n MART show ….
    …. cue rapturous audience applause and sky shooting
    .. and now, a word from our sponsors… over to you pmmp

    View all comments by doctorbond

  53. Pants Elk says:

    Butt out willya doc? Martine an’ me got a thang goin’ ON here! ParTAY!

    View all comments by Pants Elk

  54. doctorbond says:

    @ PE – You 24 carat whoopsi-daisy ‘is my tackle showing?’ ‘who stole me lino?’ creative fuck-wit benders juss make me wanna puke – if I wasn’t going to BARFUCKINBADOS in a few weeks I’d be really pissed off
    P.S. there’s a bar there called Mangoes by the Sea or something like that – shall I steal a bar-mat?

    View all comments by doctorbond

  55. rope-a-dope says:

    @hunch..”proceeded to tuck into the Stilton WITHOUT using the cheese spoon I’d provided!…”….what a fucking savage. I hope you hurled her over the balcony to a grisly end? Can’t abide such ill-mannered whores.

    View all comments by rope-a-dope

  56. Gringo N Mex says:

    One pitfall of expatiating to another country is new laws that (to me at least) seem absurd. In the U.S. we have some pretty ridiculous divorce laws. However in Mexico there is another law that can trip you up. It’s called something like “Wasting my time.” My feeble understanding of how it works is that if you date a girl for awhile and she has the expectation that you will get married, she can sue you if you dump her. I guess it could be similar to what some states describe as a common law marriage but it seems like living together is not required. I have no idea who the burden of proof is on or what time frame might be involved. It was explained to me by a friend as a warning to how much time I spend with and what I promise to one particular senorita before moving on to the next.

    View all comments by Gringo N Mex

  57. Re-Pete says:

    I paid for my student TG’s university education. Each time I came to Thailand, I gave her a bank check (completely filled out and signed) for each month until my return. Each check was the same except for the date.

    On the 1st day of each month she deposited the check for that month into her Thai bank. It took about 2 weeks for her bank to pay her the funds. The Thai bank took a small percentage for their trouble, but the transaction cost me nothing.

    Following her graduation and her employment wiith an international airline (for which she appeared in a Thai TV advertisement) she has never again needed or asked for a single Baht.

    Hey, I’m not smarter than anyone else, maybe just luckier.

    View all comments by Re-Pete

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