Response to LMW by Antonio

Posted by John Obama | Blog, Reader Submissions | Posted on August 25th, 2009

I almost exactly matched your situation 5 years ago when I was also 30. I quit my job in Los Angeles, broke up with my farang gf, sold all my possessions, took my savings and moved to Bangkok. I also worked as a software consultant for a customer in the US when I was in BKK, although I never told my customer. They didn’t find out for awhile, when they did, they didn’t really care, but one of the other consultants was always needlessly complaining, he was just an asshole…anyway…

Depending on the type of software consulting you do, I can tell you that, although Thailand is well connected to the world via phone and internet, if you are planning on working virtual from Thailand surreptitiously there are some obstacles and you stand a chance of getting caught.

If you have to VPN or use RDP to do your job you might find that connection unstable or too slow. In addition, somebody at your company is eventually going to wonder why you seem to do all your work from a different time zone. Your telephone calls might have some lag and of course somebody MIGHT notice that all your work originates from an IP address in Asia. Once again, I don’t know the nature of your job, but what will you do if you boss suddenly wants you to attend a meeting? You might not be able to get a flight on such short notice. Worse case scenario, you pull it off for awhile and then get fired. You might not care though, you can always find another job, but in that case forget about your references. There are things you can do that will mitigate these problems of course, for example, I bought a phone number on Skype, then forwarded all calls to my mobile to my Skype number.

So then, let’s say you are able to overcome the obstacles and can maintain your position while living in Thailand. Well, not much more to say about that, mission accomplished, well done, you will live like a king. Here’s the other option, you quit your job, etc, and take your savings and move to Thailand. As you probably know, saving money is difficult, it probably took you a long time to save all that money. In Thailand, you will eventually go full tilt. I was burning through money so fast. For three years I went out almost every night. What else are you going to do? I would fly back to LA, collect a $10,000 USD paycheck return to BKK and blow it all on intoxicants and women (the food budget is negligible as long as you like Thai food).

Eventually you will have been to every bar worth going to, you will walk down the streets and people will know you. At this point, your life there changes, you are no longer a newbie. You develop some bitterness at the games Thai working girls play and you start to play hardball. When you meet your farang friends most discussions are not about the ‘fun’ stories but mainly bitching about the annoying things. Maybe you consider getting a Thai gf from ‘normal’ society. Your life will get slightly more complicated at this point, because if you succeed, you will still want to hit the go-go’s with your buddies and get trashed, but a ‘normal’ Thai girl probably won’t put up with that for long or anyway you will have a lot of stress from the conflicting lifestyles. Also, what do you do in the day? Bangkok is a great city, I love it, but eventually you are going to get bored with all that free time. My biggest struggle every morning was finding something to do. Find an enjoyable hobby, like tai-chi, yoga, golf, tennis, etc to kill the daytime.

Finally I woke up one day and the thrill wasn’t there. My contract had ended. I was using my savings. I had cut back on my expenditures but still burning through cash like crazy. The worst feeling is having no money coming in and a lot going out, very stressful. If you aren’t going to live like a king, why stay there? Life is long, do you want to be a whoremonger for the rest of it? I wanted to leave, but I was addicted to the lifestyle. In the end I spent almost all my savings but had enough to get back to the US. Unfortuantely the recession hit and in the time it took me to find a new job I spent everything else. I definitely don’t regret going to Thailand, I learned a lot about an amazing culture, had some great adventures, met very interesting people, loved and lost. My only regret is that I spent everything. Transitioning back was not easy. You neglect to realize how long it took you to acquire all your possessions. Now I’m starting over. Luckily I have a good education so I eventually found a new job with a new salary in a new city with new friends. I like my new job, it’s challenging and I’m thankful for it.

I guess there are several forces that are motivating you, 1) youthful restlessness, i.e. you want some adventure 2) the lure of exotic women (a powerful one to be sure) and 3) steady but boring work. Thailand certainly has the cure for 1) and 2). But unless you have the financial resources, you will eventually have to face the prospects of 3) again. If you are the entrepreneur type you would have started your own business already. In theory you could start some company in Thailand or ‘open a bar’. But is it what you really want? Or will it just be a means to feed your appetites? Ultimately you have to find some occupation that stimulates you.

In conclusion, were I to be you, I would do the following. First, use all your paid vacation in one trip to Thailand. Live it up. When you return home, re-evaluate whether you want to return to Thailand to live. If you do, get out of your housing lease or other commitments, sell what you don’t need for when you return, give your work notice (you don’t need to tell everyone you’re quitting for Thailand, you might want those references in the future and you want to maintain professionalism) and head off for your new life. Now here is the important part: set a specified length of time at which you will again evaluate your future with a mind not clouded by lust. When you are in Thailand, make use of your time, learn a new skill, don’t just party all the time.

My life isn’t as exciting as it was in Thailand but I’ve matured. I feel that I have really lived, accomplished a dream, I am satiated, I am at peace. Now I have other dreams, I know exactly what to do to achieve them and there are more adventures waiting down the road. Good luck! Chohk dee! :-)

21 comments
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21 Responses to “Response to LMW by Antonio”

  1. Radicalron says:
    August 25, 2009 at 9:03 am

    Amen brother.

    View all comments by Radicalron

  2. bibblies says:
    August 25, 2009 at 9:36 am

    “When you are in Thailand, make use of your time, learn a new skill, don’t just party all the time”

    Easier said than done. I came over just over 2 years ago with the thought of spending just a couple of months living it up and then I’d soon settle down to some kind of work or business. You know, that sort of thing. A year later, you somehow find yourself still burning through money, doing little but going to bars daily, etc. Some people say “you get bored of it” but, once in the middle of it, it can take a long long time for it to wear off!

    View all comments by bibblies

  3. Jack CracK Heart Attack!!! says:
    August 25, 2009 at 9:38 am

    I enjoyed this story. It makes me wonder how things would have been different if you did not hit the nightlife scene as hard as you did. I wonder if you would have done one night out, or found a nice girl friend quickly upon arrival that you outlook on the place would have been greatly different. Likewise it makes me wonder that if you migrate to a place like Thailand, make some expat friends, and have the nice girl friend, would you still get bitter over time just because Thailand is somewhat of a fucked up place for all the wonderful things it has going for it. Thats kind of what I think about.

    View all comments by Jack CracK Heart Attack!!!

  4. Combover says:
    August 25, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Insightful and honest stuff Antonio. Very well put.

    View all comments by Combover

  5. Peter F says:
    August 25, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Congratulations , everything you write makes good sense .I wonder if anyone can find any major faults with this advise .

    View all comments by Peter F

  6. Jeezo says:
    August 25, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Antonio,

    Are you back in LA or are in another US city?

    I too am from the USA, did the move here in 2006 at age 33, have been working and living here since.

    -Mike

    View all comments by Jeezo

  7. Canadianboy says:
    August 25, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Jeezo… what field are you working in?

    View all comments by Canadianboy

  8. Combover says:
    August 25, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    For the other side of the coin, check out the greatest Bangkok slacker blog of all time, now sadly defunct…

    http://morallydiminished.blogspot.com/?zx=5b9f0436270d96ad

    View all comments by Combover

  9. Jeezo says:
    August 25, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Used to work in condoms… no joke.

    Now am making components for hard disk drives..

    You could say I switched from hard dicks to hard disks.

    View all comments by Jeezo

  10. LMW says:
    August 25, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Ha ha, yes I have always been a fan of morally diminished. he is/was in Chang Mia though. Sounds like he was a rich kid and lives off earnings from property in London.

    That’s quite a lifestyle.

    View all comments by LMW

  11. Canadianboy says:
    August 25, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Jeezo… that’s funny shit.

    a condom isn’t software… or softwear.

    I know… bad joke.

    View all comments by Canadianboy

  12. PB says:
    August 25, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    The economist will tell you that there are three things in life: land, labor, and capital. Not being a farmer, land itself has little meaning to me. That leaves labor and capital. Most people trade labor for their capital. IMHO, that can be a fatal mistake in a place like Thailand where labor is cheap, and you run out of capital unless you keep working (harder).

    I guess I took the road less traveled and invested in seven apartment buildings while doing M&A in the 90′s. The goal was to be capital intensive, rather than labor intensive. At present, I have a real haircut and real job (see George Thorogood and the Delaware Destroyers) which allows travel to LOS. It also diversifies the risk. I travel to Thailand now, but when the notes get paid (~ 10 years), I have the farang based cash flow to live the life I want in Thailand. More importantly, it is my mission, so I am not bored. If I am, I buy another building. The chicks are leased; the buildings are owned and all subleased. I am not sure what I enjoy more; leasing the buildings or leasing the chicks (LOL). I am not saying it is for everybody or is the right way, but it works for me.

    View all comments by PB

  13. sideshowBOB says:
    August 25, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    pb – smart move but easier done in the 90′s then now unless u got some serious cash – no?

    View all comments by sideshowBOB

  14. PB says:
    August 25, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Yeah, much easier to put seven figures together then, than now.

    View all comments by PB

  15. sideshowBOB says:
    August 25, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    pb – I think the investment took a bit less than then now. I always wished I was more aware of thailand during the crash and had bought some things up.

    View all comments by sideshowBOB

  16. LMW says:
    August 25, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    I suppose for me, and I’m sure some of you guys feel the same, I feel there is a certain window of opportunity. I’m 30. I can imagine in the next few years I could end up getting someone pregnant, or end up married for some other reason.

    Hopefully that would just be a new adventure and a new dream to follow… but it would be nice to do this one first.

    Going there at 30, coming back at 35 like Antonio has seems pretty cool.

    View all comments by LMW

  17. PB says:
    August 25, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    I do not claim to be an expert in Thai real estate. It is complicated enough in the real world (farangland). I take my hat off to those who can take a farang life style out of an LOS business. That is a unique skill set.

    Having said that, my guess is that Thail real estate will continue to hold value over the long term, but you are right that there was an economic profit to be had during the crash.

    View all comments by PB

  18. Soi Dog says:
    August 26, 2009 at 2:30 am

    Antonio’s advice sounds rock solid.

    It also sounds like LMW is on his way to a new life in Bangkok.

    Hope it works out for you. And that you don’t get any bargirls pregnant unless you want to…

    View all comments by Soi Dog

  19. GoodLife says:
    August 26, 2009 at 3:05 am

    True, I spent a better part of 2 years meeting with Investment firms in SEA from Singapore to China and Thailand…

    Singapore there were many offers and pay was good the only problem was the work… they work massive hours and rent is just the same as the states so other than being closer to Thailand there was no benefit IMHO.

    Thailand offers came in from some big corps and some thai companies but not knowing Thai many of the offers were on contractual basis and thus not fitting my needs. Also many offers were almost 70% less than what i comfortable earning.

    So here i am today, i have forgone the idea of living in Thailand and only being a visitor.

    Currently though… i am working on buying up properties in certain states here in the US… Slum lord.. no prob i can live with that.

    I see it this way with my current income i can acquire some properties here in the states and pay them off in a span of 10-12 yrs, im in my mid 30′s with little debt and have a decent 6 figure salary so i bust my ass and then live the dream the way i want…

    Its all about paving the path to reach the dream.

    View all comments by GoodLife

  20. Prufrock says:
    August 26, 2009 at 10:49 am

    IMH and admittedly ill-informed O, unless you’re an insider, long term paper and market positions are great ways to lose sleep and money.

    Seven years ago at an Isaan wedding a Wall street investment “expert” scoffed at my gold query (gold was about $440, I was just experimenting as I do occasionally with polite conversation)
    “You could always use it as a doorstop, I suppose” was this insider’s final word on gold.

    He was similarly sour on real estate. Any real estate.
    He was on holiday but like a lot of financial experts here, after a few beers he couldn’t help rounding on me with the usual crap-fest a lot of these “wealth managers” reserve for traditional bricks and mortar players and their plays.
    This wedding event was the reason for his mini-vacation (sans wife) and he was really enjoying himself. He was making millions, he said.

    I listened to what he had to say about the mysterious ins and outs of big city finance. Allowing no quarter as he blew off my passing references to big city real estate as so much child’s play I popped another nam soda and, um, took in the lecture.
    These New York players are so wise, I thought to myself.

    He went on to share that if I had to be in real estate I should be in paper. MBS’s and credit default instruments were the way to go. He was into them, he said, and yessir, he was making millions. He was starting a fund. Would I like to get in?

    I had no reason to disbelieve him since he likely was making millions

    But I, um, like, passed :-)

    That was then. This is now

    In select North American jurisdictions inner-city real estate and rents are both up. Tim Geitner and the Fed are currently doing their best to make us fixer-upper guys extremely happy with our storage choices.

    Sure there’s a leaky window once in a while and last year when I was back, my tenant, a senior investment banker (recently divorced and recently ass-raped by that sub-prime thingy took great delight in informing me that his toilet was running on and “would I should have a look at it” Ah yes, even these days some of these fellas have their moments of glory. :-)

    Long term? With well chosen property and some luck you get inflation-adjusted capital appreciation on the investment. You get rents. And if you live here, you get a boost on the exchange.

    There’s way more.

    Un-leveraged real estate rules.

    View all comments by Prufrock

  21. Daywalker says:
    August 26, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    I worked it out that with my current rate of spending on booze, drugs and hookers.. I can retire at the age of 127.

    :)

    View all comments by Daywalker

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