Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome by pmmp
Posted by pmmp | Blog, Reader Submissions | Posted on November 19th, 2007
One of the things I struggle with most living in Thailand is trying not to fall in love. It’s really starting to bug me because I am so ashamed of my behavior. So, I decided to do some research to try and figure out why I keep doing this.
When I lived in the US this wasn’t a problem for me. Perhaps because the women there are cows with attitudes of super models or because I wasn’t ready emotionally, nah, it was because of the cow thing. In Thailand however, there are young and beautiful women everywhere. Sure, many of them I am exposed to are working girls but they’re not the same as the working girls back home which might have something to do with it.
During my first embarrassing trip down lover’s lane a friend told me about “Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome“. He said that it’s built into us as men that we need to rescue women. Also, that basing a relationship on this was a bad thing. He saw me going down the path and was trying to help but I was in too deep and shrugged off his advice.
My first girlfriend here was indeed a working girl. I even paid her lifetime bar to rescue her from the cold GoGo pole she was forced to two-step by every night. She also struggled with viscous co-workers, a poor and troubled family to support, and an addiction to certain ‘things’. I swept in with my 10,000 baht and whisked her away in a not so shiny Tuk-Tuk.
The relationship however ended up horribly. I’ve wrote about how breaking up is hard to do before and the pain of the breakup kept me from having another relationship for a while but I keep getting sucked in. I’ve learned quite a bit and hear all the horror stories from other Punters and still I keep falling.
I recently got sucked in again and it was yet another rescue me situation. It’s so difficult not to. She was ripe for the rescuing, 21 years old, smart, funny, wacky, and such a beauty. Within a week we were talking about living together. I knew I would lose my membership at The FS2M blog or at least get banned from posting or commenting for a month for such behavior but I continued on. Luckily her mentally ill side came out and I ended it as cheap Pratunaam pumps and a bowl of soup were being hurled at me in the early hours of the morning.
Why do I keep doing this? I don’t know but I decided to turn to Google for advice. I typed in “Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome Men” and luckily 70,300 results came back. The first one was an article aptly named “Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome” by Lucia Demasi. Lucia or at least her picture is pretty hot and looks like she’s been around the block a bit. Her bio and pic. I love this:
“With over 20 years experience on the relationship market, Lucia has dated men of all nationalities in six cities, four countries and two continents. Her practical know-how makes her the perfect candidate to dispense relationship advice – after all, in almost every dating dilemma she has been there, done that and lived to tell about it.”
Sounds like a real worldly slut but then again who wants advice from a virgin. Her article here is pretty enlightening on this subject. Sure, it’s a bunch of birds cackling and trying to explain men’s behavior but it’s also what my friend was trying to tell me earlier on. That is, be careful about entering relationships mainly based on trying to save a damsel in distress.
The second of the 70,300 results is a book on Amazon titled “A Knight in Shining Armor: Understanding Men’s Romantic Illusions“. An editorial review of this book:
“Hornstein (psychology, Columbia Univ.) argues that many men believe they must act as “knights in shining armor” in their relationships with women. He categorizes such men as: ministers who believe they must “provide or do for women”; educators who “guide or do to women”; or Lancelots who “protect women or do in front of women.” He provides interviews with men who exemplify these types, and theorizes that this “Man-Servant Syndrome” is the counterpart to Colette Dowling’s “Cinderella Complex.” Relationships based on such thinking and behavior, he feels, are doomed to failure. Hornstein’s insights are a boon to the current state of male-female relationships. The book is well written, easily read, and recommended.”
Okay, with these two Google hits under my belt I now understand my situation a little better and probably need to look inside a bit. If I don’t the temptation here is probably greater than anywhere else and I will surely fall again. I know I know, I should stop my bitching. I’m 40+ and I’m complaining about breaking up with 20-25 year old stunners. Nonetheless, it’s not good for me or for the damsels so we’ll just have to see. In the meantime I sent Lucia an email to see if she will be coming to Thailand anytime soon. 
209 Responses to “Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome by pmmp”
Leave a Reply
Yes I remember the Mickey Rourke Lookalike. I just knew the girl I pic...
Daywalker,That's how you'll know me at the Mango.Middle-aged bald guy ...
The first time I got to Eden, you landed at Don Maeng.
Yep - I remember walking past Eden and keep walking to the end of the ...
Trojan,You have the Mango and the Eden on your list. Just don't get t...- Soi Dog, Why on earth would you want to wear a school uniform?Lolitas...
Excellent write up, had me pissing myself.Been here 8 years and done s...
They laughed and said “No pomphem. We take care. Lelax.” Cool. Don’...
ROLLN at an AA meeting...talk about irony.- Funny stuff! I was intimidated by the Eden Club too. Don't know how I ...
Recent Comments
Translator
Dear oh dear Mr.Pmmp. – Formerly a hero of mine.
“Within a week we were talking about living together.”
I only look up to you now, because I’m short.
I too, fell for what I thought was a gorgeous girl. Not the crazed crack whore that she is. We discussed her moving in and me taking over the payments on her buffalo and no doubt sponsor the Brothers/Thai boyfriends in a drinkathon.
It was only when I caught her ‘playing away’… that I came to my senses.
As they say… “you can take the girl out of the bar……..”
I am now happy to be the ‘Knight in Shining Armani’… but for only for a few days at a time
Besides… why make one woman so miserable, when you can make so many others so happy?!
View all comments by Day Walker
pmmp:- Surely as a man living in the deep end itself any suit of armour is highly restrictive…. in this case lose your ‘Suit of Amour’. Live like Tarzan mate, lord of all he surveys in the Jungle! Then should you find trouble ahead, you’ll have all the other animals running to your aid!!! Get back out there son!!!
View all comments by Hanuman 73
I’ve got to admit, it’s really surprising that someone like you suffers from such a problem(“Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome/Pretty Woman Syndrome”). Especially, since you’ve been on the other side. By the “other side”, I mean that you’ve managed bars in Thailand and I’m sure you know how the girls really act when the farang customer is gone. I recall one Thai video clip that was circulating on the web of a bargirl going down on her farang boyfriend whilst attempting to talk on the phone with her “sponsor” overseas, I guess she could say that she was sucking on a bowl of noodles. Being that you live in Thailand you probably won’t have problems with cheating bargirls but the overall psychology of the girls working in the scene are somewhat warped or at least not to the same level as the paying customers.
This is not to say that I’ve never fallen victim of such problems. But I think its entirely hard not to have a conscious level of sympathy that barely peaks at the level of attraction between two consenting adults. I know that your knee deep in p4p action but have you considered dating just a regular Thai non-working girl? Do you foresee having the same problem? I think being a person residing in Thailand gives you an upper edge as opposed to someone who just visits. Because let’s face it, girls aren’t stupid and they know if there’s even a remote possibility of a burgeoning romance that will continue or just “fin it” short time.
This brings up a very difficult question. Should punters just treat the gals in the p4p scene as just what they are. I’ve read comments and entries from hardened/jaded punters who just use’em and throw’em. I, myself find this act difficult to stomach as everyone deserves some level of respect. I guess my question is, where would you draw the line?(other than having objects hurled at you or being threaten with having your weewee chopped and fed to chickens?)
I highly recommend reading “Private Dancer” by Stephen Leather. Its supposedly fictional but hard to believe some of the events mentioned never happened in real life.
View all comments by Crazy Jack
Pmmp,
You are not in the class of the Hometown Heroes described in In Defense of Thai Women Part 1, http://www.bigmangobar.com/?p=475, but one thing to keep in mind is that the women you are hanging out with and dating are “World Class Women”
In professional athletics, the tenth best tennis player or golfer in the world is a world class athlete and one of the best in the world at his chosen profession, but when he enters a professional tennis or golf tournament like Wimbledon or the British Open he is going to struggle and get beaten most times he plays.
The same happens in poker. The 10th best poker player in the world is an awesome player, but when he sits down in the biggest games where the first through ninth players are also playing, he is going to have to get lucky to head home winner.
White guys with money and decent jobs, who are average looking or better, and offer a chance for a TG to settle down, have kids, and lead what we would consider a normal middle or upper middle class lifestyle are equivalent to famous movie actors and rock stars in the USA and will frequently find themselves playing The Game with the best looking, most intelligent, experienced women–”the cream of Thai Womanhood” referred to In Defense of Thai Women.
It is no big deal, no surprise, and no shame, and no reason to get down on yourself to come out loser or find out later that you got hoodwinked in this situation with this dynamic at work.
It costs a little money, is a little embarrassing but causes no significant or lasting damage.
Personally, I find it hugely enjoyable, great fun, and immensely entertaining playing The Game with TG’s with great natural talent, i.e. are beautiful and sexy and great skills i.e. wonderful fun personalities, great senses of humor, and a lot of experience pleasing and entertaining men in and out of the bedroom-what normal heterosexual dude wouldn’t?
It is sort of like watching world class golfers on TV and watching one of them whack an amazing long drive down the fairway or pitch out of a sand trap or sitting at a poker table with great players and seeing another player make an incredible, insightful, successful bluff for big money. When you get to see things like this you can only rock back in your chair, smile, say Wow!, and be thankful God created this wonderful world and put us here to participate in, experience, and be a part of it.
Nothing I have written here should be taken as denigrating TG’s–either GoGo girls, Bar Girls, Freelancers, or normal Thai girls who date farangs.
They just like us are only using and enjoying the gifts Buddha has bestowed on them and trying to enjoy and make as much of their lives as possible.
Most of them, even though they are trying to manipulate men to attain their goals, have jai dee (good heart).
They are just trying to find a good man who will be a good husband to them, a good father to their future children, and a good family man and help them support their parents whom they love in their old age—nothing dark or evil going on.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
I let the girls rescue me.
It’s easier that way.
View all comments by Jack Dawson
as a paid up member of the “find em, fuck em, forget em” i think you are taking this way too seriously.
View all comments by MSB
“I highly recommend reading “Private Dancer” by Stephen Leather. Its supposedly fictional but hard to believe some of the events mentioned never happened in real life.”
Steve has cheerfully said quite a number of times (in public) that the book is essentially true and that the story happened to him more or less the way he tells it in that book. I have always wondered how it is that he apparently can’t see what that makes him look like.
The ‘hero’ of this book, if you’ll pardon the expression, is a mind-numbingly naive and unbelievably dumb Brit kid who goes into the usual death spiral over a bar girl the first time he comes to Thailand. When the kid wakes up enough to grasp that he is a laughingstock, not only with some Thais but with his own friends, instead of taking his medicine like a man and absorbing the value of he lesson he has learned, he turns on the girl and launches a crusade for vengeance against both her and her family by doing whatever he can to hurt them. The only thing that makes this guy look dumber and more hopeless than the way he gets into trouble in the first place is the pettiness that leads him to claims to be triumphant in the end.
The character in the book is, simply put, an irredeemable western asshole who gets his rocks off by crapping all over a semi-adolescent bar girl and her semi-literate family. For the author to go around saying cheerfully, “Yeah, that’s me,’ simply buggers the imagination.
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
I have two simple rules for long term expats in Thailand:
1. treat all working girls (those who have ever worked at a go go, g-club, beer bar, massage parlor or otherwise ply their trade as freelancers) as hookers. form no emotional attachment with them. don’t form silly rationalizations such as “well, she’s a uni girl working in a g-club, so she’s different”). if you have difficulty with this, then just imagine how many different blokes have masturbated in your potential hunny’s vagina.
2. only form relationships with good girls (any long term expat should know the difference).
View all comments by go go groupie
It’s an easy trap to fall into – but where does it end. The reality is that 99.9% of all BG’s are with you for cash – the .1 is with you coz she likes your credit card.
I agree with GGG, play with 1, and if needs be get serious with 2.
Next time you get the KiSAS (pun intended) problem think of her as 40 years old – that ought to do it.
View all comments by Psi100th
“The reality is that 99.9% of all BG’s are with you for cash”
the standard response to that, as already vetted on this board and others, is that you have to pay regardless of the girl (for dinner, drinks and gifts for the good girls versus bar fines and outright maintenance fees for the good time girls).
that fact, assuming for argument’s sake is true, doesn’t negate the validity of the simple rule, however. if it’s a relationship you’re after, the good girl is the obvious better choice.
i’m sure we’ve all known a few knights who have tried to save a damsel and actually attempt to form a relationship – i’m not denying that there are some success stories, but the odds are so incredibly against it why even bother? just imagine your little princess getting crushed by a beer sotted, overweight, smelly sex tourist – that should quickly stomp out any budding romantic feelings you might have (or, if she’s one of the uni g-club gals that so many are fond of, imagine her as she’s locking lips/other body parts with her singapore chinese social reject who’s responsible for paying her tuition).
View all comments by go go groupie
@OAH: I really hope you understand that I’m not promoting any acts of unkindness towards women(in general, not just bargirls). I’ve had my fair share of women’s scorn(fury mostly). The reason I mentioned this book was not to promote it but merely a suggestion because it does illustrate a lot of the realities of the bargirl’s lifestyle.
To better explain this, everyone reads the newspaper but I’m sure each person walks away with a different interpretation of it. Some people read the newspaper and follow it, word for word. Others will walk away reading between the lines and figuring out their own understanding of what they read.
I agree that the main character(if you can call him that), made a complete fool of himself. But I took away from this book the realities of the deceptions made clear both by the punter and the prostitute. Sometimes we convince ourselves with lies to justify a situation. I guess this was my way of understanding the dynamics of p4p, there’s really no innocence involved. This was my way of relating to this blog entry.
View all comments by Crazy Jack
I find the only girl you can trust is a dead one.
View all comments by Day walker
@ pmmp: I’m sorry to hear that things didn’t work out as you’d hoped.
In the free time you have now, relax and pursue your current business projects.
“Early forties” ‘Markin guys with real money, business savvy, an Amity set-up and a successful bar don’t grow on trees.
Switch to daylight hours for a month or so.
Daily morning workouts. Healthy regimen. Discipline. Why not?
Park your lunch-time ass near Chong Nonsi and check out all the working (late twenties/early thirties) hotties and the new divorcees (some actually in black mourning clothes for the first few months)
When, during the course of the lease search, and the P4 business you meet a gal smart enough to know who you are, stay in the driver’s seat.
Shag in the places where a confident Thai man would shag. Use the good pros. That’s what they’re there for.
Above all, respect yourself.
Ok. I’ll shut the fukc up now.
View all comments by thongsuk
Hang on a minute…. before we all start feeling sorry for pmmp and offering him our Sisters (or Mothers), remember that the extent of his problem was that he had to blow-off a ‘hot-chick’.
I think we’d all like those problems?
pmmp…. if you’re looking for sympathy, you’ll find it in the dictionary between ‘Syphillis’ and ‘Shit’.
View all comments by Day walker
Crazy Jack –
No, no misunderstanding concerning what you said and certainly no criticism of you implied by my comments.
I have just always found it odd to see that particular novel cited over and over as a ‘must read’ for every visitor or, worse, as a sort of how-to manual for surviving Thailand. While the set up of the story may well be a common experience for the most naive and stupid who visit here, the how-to part of the book can only be read to teach that the right response for a foreigner is give free rein to his inner-asshole and crap al over the girl who done him wrong (and everyone she knows). I think that’s a lousy lesson to commend to the less experienced in the ways of Thailand, although — come to think of it — many of those who read the book probably find it a completely natural role to assume.
Okay, enough. I’ll follow my mate Thongsuk’s wise lead and shut the fuck up.
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I guess this came off a bit pathetic which is why I am getting all the sympathy, except from daywalker who believe me needs our sympathy more than I do
.
The reason I wrote about this is because had I known about this syndrome I might have handled my latest relationship better (kept it p4p or moved slower or bailed) so perhaps this will help a few other’s struggling in the same way. I was also hoping that there would be great comments to further assist and so far there have been (again, except from daywalker).
As far as dating a non-working girl, not my cup of tea, yet anyway. Thai working girls work for me and I like being Tarzan as H73 puts it, although Tarzan did fall for Jane so not sure that applies here. It’s just this falling in love thing I need to work on. I would think though I wouldn’t succumb as easy to KiSAS with a non-working girl because they may not be as distressed as working girls. Not interested in finding out. Normal non-working girls are too normal for me. Working girls rule. I respect the hell out of them and I’m glad as heck to be here to enjoy them. There are some that I eff and forget but I’m a big fan of the GFE. I just need to keep it to a day or two of experience.
View all comments by pmmp
article on author John Burdett
with multimedia interview/photos.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/24/arts/burdett.php
View all comments by know so
“Working girls rule. I respect the hell out of them and I’m glad as heck to be here to enjoy them. ”
pmmp, just curious about what it is you respect. i guess i could respect a poor girl with no education who gets knocked up as a teen in buriram and then needs to support the kid (then again, as far as bar girls go, those are the ones i’m guessing you’d least consider for a relationship given the baggage). outside of that, i can’t see it, especially the young hotties who never had such problems – they just come across as lazy and extrememly focused on the short term (i.e. the ultimate “rule of thumbers” for all the economists out there, in that they spend 100% of their income, regardless of the amount).
View all comments by go go groupie
@ pmmp: ;- ) GTG’s
All that shit they’ve seen on the internet for the past twelve years? They’re just dying to get some.
Corrupt the bitches, pmmp.
I have turned a few late twenties early thirties gals into “gift whores” and we’ve both thoroughly enjoyed the process.
On the second or third lunch date order her to hand you her underwear when she finishes rinsing off her arse in “the Ladies
she balks, she’ll still remember it. . . . 
They fukcin’ love that one! Works real nice with “big gator” whores as well.
Even if (this time
(“Why?” she’ll ask. Well, you’re going back to work and I’m going to do a little shopping
BTW, this isn’t sympathy.
But I have to shut the fukc up again, now
View all comments by thongsuk
I DO need sympathy from all.
I accept PayPal or beer vouchers.
pmmp… you’re so mean.
View all comments by Day walker
know so: why the Burdett link? I enjoyed Bangkok 8 and Tatoo but we were talking about Stephen Leather’s Private Dancer??
ggg: Having managed working girls for the past two years and having partaken in the p4p scene I stand by the fact that I respect the hell out of them. Sure, there are lazy one’s but what they are doing is very difficult nonetheless. You think it’s easy being early 20′s and being a whore with sometimes fat/slobby/hairy/smelly and sometimes abusive farangs and thais? You think it’s easy getting four days off per month and working for mamasans? You think it’s easy for them to see farangs with so much money when they have very little? You think they enjoy being discriminated against by their own people because of the color of their skin? They are also fighting father time and families that brainwash and guilt them into taking care of their lazy asses in Issan. Granted, the family is usually taking care of their kid(s) but still.
With all that they still manage to keep their spirits high and in some cases give you the experience of a lifetime. I will clarify that I don’t respect the bad one’s but there are good one’s that I respect more than most.
ts: we need to find out how to limit your emoticon usage
dw: my paypal account is bitemyarse001 and the password is bendoverrover. Feel free to make a withdrawal.
View all comments by pmmp
geepers, your first rhetorical question sound like you believe these girls are forced into doing this! surely after managing them for two years you know that’s not the case – the ones that don’t have a choice in the matter are, as mentioned, those who have kids and no education – if those are the ones you respect, then i guess i might agree. but then again, there are probably a hundred girls from issan who decideds not to sell her pussy and instead works in the local som tam shop for a hundred baht a day for each such bargirl.
i’m not sure what your experience is otherwise with these girls, but i’ve noticed that the hotties who are in their early 20′s who work here come because a girl in the local amphoe did the same and struck it rich, either by being sponsored by a few farang or getting a buffalo to buy a home for the family. can’t fault them for trying to do the same, although i also couldn’t see how one could have heaps of respect for them.
as for the other two rhetorical questions, don’t they apply to all non-chinese bkk raised Thais?
View all comments by go go groupie
@OAH: I’m not looking to defend the book. I guess in someways I felt a bit insulted at first when you shared your views on it. But then I realize that your right. You mentioned two key points in your recent comment that did click. “Naive and Stupid”, it was naive and stupid of me to fall for a girl behind the bar but I think in many ways this is exactly what Knight-in-Shining-Armor-Syndrome is. I can’t speak on anyone else’s behalf but only from personal experience. I fell for a working girl and ultimately paid for it. Point taken.
@pmmp: For the most part everyone’s fallen victim to this type of problem regardless if its with a working or non-working girl. Weeding out the looneys can be tough and I’m sure when it comes to working girls the matter is magnified exponentially.
In any case, I think the concern here is what to do about moving on and never making that same mistake again. IMHO, there’s two outcomes.
a)A person becomes jaded by the experience. While a majority of the responses indicate that you use’em(the BGs’) and forget’em. I find this hard to do as I’m naturally a naive person and I think everyone, no matter who or what they do deserves some sense of respect.
b)A person that becomes aware of the situation and learns from it. You realize how this “Game” is played and use it to your advantage and do your best never to lose again.
I’m still surprised that someone whose managed the bar scene could get into this kind of issue. I’d love to hear other suggestions on what to do as well. This is becoming an interesting read.
View all comments by Crazy Jack
pmmp… so…. what are you saying?
View all comments by Day walker
cj: I’m not sure if managing in the bar scene exempts you from getting taken down this path. I still hear about guys who’ve been her way longer than me eventually falling for a bargirl, and for the wrong reasons. When you fall logic and experience seem to disappear. Knowing about KiSAS might help with falling for the wrong reasons.
ggg: man, we are both generalizing the heck out of this so just wanted to cop to that first. Nonetheless, many truths in the generalizations. You make good points. I just know that I do respect many of the one’s I know for how hard they work and the how they put up with the mountains of bullshit they encounter. I won’t pretend to understand them just because I’ve worked with or ‘went’ with them but I definitely respect them. Again, it’s not right generalizing here since every case is different but I don’t understand your lack of respect or how you are surprised at how I can respect them so. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one for the most part.
View all comments by pmmp
I think the second best relationship advice you can get is:
Only get serious with a woman who has a university degree and works a proper day job and is able to take care of her self financially and insist she keeps working even if her salary is insignificant compared to yours.
There is a whole list of reasons to set the bar here, but for me the major one is that when she approaches her expiry date the breakup will be a lot less painful for both parties if she is able to survive without you. Life is tough for 30+ yr old Thai women without an education.
And the best relationship advice: don’t get serious period
View all comments by Orion
They have made the choice to work in a bar. I stress – CHOICE. This is a choice of money first, above everything else. So, these are not the nicest girls really. So, if you are looking for a girlfriend in this pool then good luck.
The girls have made the choice to be there. So this white knight syndrome doesnt apply. If you want to feel sorry for someone – think of all the good girls busting it for 30 baht an hour in 7/11 or mcdonalds.
NOW – a caveat is that some girls in nana etc. dont have a choice of their own. it is a choice made for them by their family. who sends them to work to whisky, gamble, cars etc. which is just the ugliest part of all of this. these girls – yes, a tragedy. but still, cant be helped really. they answer to their family first. and their family wants a payday. you will have to deal with and provide for the family upon taking this girl from bar.
i really dont understand bigbabykenny saying how these nana birds are the pinacle of thai women. is just bizarre. And he seems to think they are looking for a husband in nana. Well – only if it works out more profitable. Their love is money.
View all comments by m
In thailand there is a real syndrome of judging people not by what they do but by what they have.
So – the issan mother upcountry with a car. people dont seem to think – complete disgrace of a woman selling her daughter basically for material gain. they think – wow, she has a car. what an amazing woman.
View all comments by m
This all brings back memories……
I met a girl in a bar several years ago. We hit it off. We got together and I ‘supported’ her and her family. I even sent her little kiddie to a private school.
For two years I was sending her money whilst I was away. She ‘claimed’ to have loved me, but after a while it became clear she was just in it for the cash.
So, I we parted company. It was tough at first, but then I went to Thailand and discovered Bangkok.
I’ve never looked back since ditching the dumb blonde Scouser. (someone who comes from Liverpool – for our American friends!)
I still get ripped off in BKK, but it’s a hell of a lot cheaper.
View all comments by Day walker
The advice, “don’t get involved with a bar girl” and “TG’s are only interested in money” that is dispensed by the crusty old know-it-all blowhard expats and is being dispensed in the comments to this post as if it was one of the ten commandments that Moses brought down from Mt Sinai engraved in stone is wrong IMHO.
I don’t question that the aforementioned expats believe deep in their hearts that they are dispensing the truth as they see it and trying to prevent others from suffering as they have but their deeply held belief is a really just a syndrome or by-product of the Hometown Hero effect (In Defense of Thai Women http://www.bigmangobar.com/?p=475).
When Hometown Heroes come to Thailand and play and get bested in The Game with TG’s, they blame it on the women rather than themselves.
Just like the Hometown Heroes in poker who quit their day jobs in a small town and move to Las Vegas or Los Angeles to try to become professional poker players, play in games against superior players, end up busted and bitter, and blame their condition on cheating, collusion among the other players, or just plain bad luck, the aforementioned expats who move to Thailand, match up against The Cream of Thai Womanhood, get bested in The Game and blame the TG rather than facing the unpalatable truth that most of the blame rests squarely on their shoulders.
The TG’s in question are not using a gun to rob the aforementioned expats.
The aforementioned expats are doing things and making decisions of their own free will that they regret later.
Is this the fault of the allegedly greedy manipulative TG’s, who are just doing what women all over the world and in every society and socio-economic group do, or the expat who gets himself in over his head?
And just like the busted Hometown Heroes in poker who after they are busted are full of bile and hatred for the superior players who won their money fairly, the aforementioned expats are full of hatred for the TG’s who bested them playing The Game.
You can see this in the dark comments about TG’s in this post and the theme in the Burdett book.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
wow, pmmp mentioned that we were talking in generalizations, but BBK bested the both of us. i consider myself a crusty-old blowhard expat, however, i’ve yet to be taken for a ride by a bar girl (nor, for that matter, have many of the other crusty old blowhards i’ve met). it’s a matter of perspective – some are lucky enough to have it from the start, whereas others learn it after experience. at the end of the day, however, the aforementioned conclusions are pretty much spot on. Keep it simple – it’s one of the few things the locals have mastered – if you want a relationship that will last, your best bet is with a “boring” good girl. to relieve your bordom, visit the go gos, g-clubs, etc.
View all comments by go go groupie
the poker analogy makes you more cynical than the crusty old blowhards you refer to. viewing relationships as a “game” where one person gets bested by the other? so is the true professional the one who is able to get the best of the poor thai working girl?
View all comments by go go groupie
If your armour isn’t shiny enough I find these girls are great for giving you a good polish.
View all comments by Combover
Pity is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe I just don’t know enough to not feel pity for these girls. I would surely be less inclined to rescue them if I shared the same opinion as the COKBE’s (crusty old know-it-all blowhard expats)
Nonetheless, Punters including your’s truly feel it and then KiSAS kicks in. I may have to change the title of this post to “Knights in Shining Armor Syndrome: Is the damsel really in distress or do you just not know any better?”
Combover: ha! and interesting little avatar
BBK: you also referred to Burdett’s book. Am I missing something here or is it Stephen Leather’s book we were talking about?
View all comments by pmmp
bigbabykenny likes playing a game with his females. i dont. why even have people like these women he so admires in your life? I dont think its conducive to a happy one. Bang them yes. But team with them – hell no. You dont even want to be in this game – let alone lose at it.
View all comments by m
Is it me, or has anyone else noticed that BBK always talks of ‘The Game’ and ‘Poker’?
Too boring. Give it a rest.
This ‘Game’ you love to talk about is some peoples LIVES
And as for ‘Poker’ being a profession? I don’t think so.
View all comments by Devils Advocate
the girls dont need rescuing. these guys do!!
i try to do my bit. and maybe i just come across as a C*nt. but seriosly guys. pull it together!
ok – do the gf experience if u can handle it. But the thing is you can’t. you have a level of attachment and this is ultimately leveraged against you.
if you want a gf – get a gf. if you want to bang a whore – bang a whore. dont thread the two otherwise you will come unstuck.
View all comments by m
A possible solution:
“if you want a friend, buy a dog”.
Gordon Geko. Wall Street. 1986.
View all comments by m
m: true enough ya C*nt
. In fact, the Lucia article does mention the same which is why I said I need to look inside a bit. The article actually tears into the guys far worse than you did. Great quote too from one of my favorite movies of all time.
View all comments by pmmp
Sigh….Would you have a relationship with a working girl you met at the local knockshop back home?
Respect & pity these girls? No reason why you shouldn’t. Especially when you take into context the social welfare conditions of many countries back in farangland. Added to the fact that they are often great company in the short term.
But a relationship with one of them? Bit like winning the toss at cricket & thinking about putting the opposition into bat. No reason you shouldn’t think about it. Think about it very carefully. Thoroughly. Then opt to bat.
View all comments by Wombat
Some of this is just so right on the money: – hope the link pulls through.
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader2172.htm
View all comments by m
Im just trying to get quotes from that piece to cut and paste here. but i just cant cut it down. so much of it is just so true and i cant cut it down to any soundbites.
View all comments by m
BBK: My problem with poker is that in that game someone ALWAYS has to lose so that one of the players can make money. The one losing gets nothing in return for his lost money. In a basically functioning economy you more than often have a win-win situation for the supplier and the customer. In poker not. In the BG business, yes – you get a service from the girl. In Poker it’s about taking away something, in economy (like in the BG business) it’s an exchange of money and services. So an analogy of the BG business with poker is fun to read. But the basic assumptions are different, so the two cannot be compared.
Ok, if “Cream of Thai womanhood” means that they are good suppliers who are able to get lots of cash for their services from their customers, i agree. But still it’s business, not Poker, which is is not a business in an economical sense, imho.
If you also don’t say the Top Players must have a good character to make lot’s of money – I also agree with you. Also bad people can be successful in business.
So the whining of all those ripped of Farang is truly annoying, totally agreed on.
From the economical side, BG’s are often very good suppliers who can extract lots of money from their customers. Yes, that can be admired from an economical viewpoint.
I suggest – and I think you too, if I understand yuo right – to seperate between the business success of BG’s and the evaluation of their character. Those are two different things, that should not be mixed.
Thongsuk said it very well in on of his recent posts: If they even just pretend to like you and give you that GFE or at least behave nice, funny and charming, I am also more than willing to pay for that. If some people dont like the GFE, also fine, each to his own. So if the service and treatment provided is of good quality, I don’t really care about their personal problems. Though I like to ask the girls about their background out of true interest, but that ususally doesn’t result in giving them more money.
pmmp: Thanks for your post and for your openess to talk about that personal topic. I am also at the moment reconsidering my relationship to my GTG in BKK, who I will meet again in Dec. and your thoughts gave me further input. Though she is not a BG but a university educated girl with her own apartment and income. That makes thing really easier to talk about relationship matters, since I never was her sponsor. Well, except for the travels in Thailand and one visit to my country
But those were great investments that I will never regret.
View all comments by Phoenix
Excellent comment by Phoenix.
Does anyone ever ask themselves ‘what they are doing in Thailand’?
We all know the rules, we all know what we are doing, and we know it’s going to cost us.
It is what it is.
- As they say, ‘A fool and his money are easily parted’.
View all comments by Day walker
@ “m” “i try to do my bit. and maybe i just come across as a C*nt”
Indeed you do, “m”
View all comments by thongsuk
gotta be cruel to be kind sometimes.
View all comments by m
I am a martyr. taking board flak to get the truth to – and rescue – pmmp. Heroic.
Like Jesus, I suffer for the wisdom of my message.
View all comments by m
rescue pmmp? Is he now a damsel in distress?
View all comments by Day walker
Perhaps a future topic might be how to handle the girls to maximize on the GFE and minimize the consequential damages(for both parties).
View all comments by Crazy Jack
Damn. That’s it for me. I’ve run out of emoticons.
View all comments by thongsuk
A ladyboy told me a few days ago that a Swede sends her 35K a month.
She had to leave the bar. Which she did.
But she is now on Sukumvit with a blueberry and all mod cons in tow c/o a Scandinavian fool selling her arse to the highest bidder.
And she also said they haven’t even had sex.
He visits a few times a year.
View all comments by Jimmy Cricket
these girls have realised that they can get the most money by selling not just sex – but “love”, or a simulation of “love”. With this guys will send them money. The best girls have loads of guys sending money. they are raking it in. This works because there are a lot of men looking for love in lower suk. which is the worst place to look for it really.
View all comments by m
Some people find love where they least expect it.
- I personally found it in Prison. But that’s another blog…..
View all comments by Day walker
no bangkok hooker has ever called out to me “love you long time” as you see in the vietnam movies. dissapointed. Maybe this isnt on the menu anymore. and is the crux of peoples problems now. hollywood promises. but bkk no longer delivers.
View all comments by m
‘M’… don’t believe everything you see in the movies.
View all comments by 007
The hooker in Full Metal Jacket was Vietnamese
View all comments by Orion
I’m glad I moved here in my forties and after the internet with all the information on tg’s, including this great site. In my younger years I was a sucker for damsels in distress and tended to put women on pedestals. Overall, I have a “good heart” that has gotten me in deep emotionally in the past (and could very easily again with the right tg gfe). If I had moved here in my earlier years the Thai girls would have destroyed me and taken everything I had. Point is, that I can sympathize with pmmp and anyone else suffering from “knight in shining armor syndrome.” Didn’t the Big Mango have a support group night for all the sufferers.
View all comments by MunchMouth
“sucky fucky” is another one.
im going to try and bring this into working use. Has a real romance to it.
View all comments by m
Ive met loads of guys that have lost houses upcountry. That seems to be a very common one. – although of course they never had the houses in the first place. it was always in the girl’s name.
View all comments by m
It’s weird but I read these and other messageboards and a lot of the underlying bitterness and cynicism expressed here regarding Thai-farang relationships, and it doesn’t really compute versus what I see when I visit my girlfriend’s village.
What I see is quite a lot of fairly contented older blokes, married or seeing decent-ish looking younger women, who have found a happy medium in the love-companionship-provider equilibrium. Of course, not all these situations work out, but that would be the case whoever each of them were with anywhere.
The number of times I see harded nosed cynicism from the girls is no greater than from the man’s side. More than a few are very happy to be with a kind man, who may be a merely adequate provider.
Of course, people put on a strong front, and you can never truly know what happens behind closed doors, but there many many happy and enduring Thai-farang marriages, wherever the couples first met.
Keep being genuine and giving it your best shot pmmp. Don’t be a fool to the bad girls folks, but also don’t believe the hype and don’t let the sour, sorry, sexperts grind you down.
View all comments by Combover
Good post Combover. I think you are alluding to the fact that the people living happily ever after are too busy living happily ever after to tell their story(ies) on Thai related websites.
View all comments by John Brown
the ones that have been turned over won’t still be in the village – hanging with all their villager mates. They are moaning to someone (me) on a barstool somewhere downcountry. you are viewing a selective pool in the village. those in the honeymoon interim.
View all comments by m
too many people think they are Richard Gere in “pretty woman”. – often their situation cannot even fulfil the title, let alone the touching truimph of love over sordid raunch and filth.
View all comments by m
Damn right JB. Not only those people either. Also those happy rogues, the types we all kinda love and take a shine to, the types who get married five times, get fcuked over, fcuk others over, lose everything, make it all back, keep going back for more, live more lives and have more fun than any of these authorities, analysts, essay writers and experts who sit around on their hairy white arses all day.
These are the folks who have a right to comment, who have something of value to say, but they rarely do because they’re too busy living life, giving of themselves, taking risks, making mistakes, winning the lottery, having fun. Instead we get the embittered divorcees, the soulless self-styled cultural gurus, the poker players, the on-drugs and the bad punctuators.
View all comments by Combover
I think the microcosm of this site is the only place where the mantra “don’t marry a hooker” can be drowned out by people shouting that people that do are complete winners and legends.
View all comments by m
Out of respect for pmmp and smitty’s desire for this site not to be drowned by pissing contests, I shall refrain from commenting on that patently hyperbolic statement.
View all comments by Combover
Sir Gal I Had, your armour is ready…
View all comments by But Different
Combover and Old Asia Hand,
It is a great pleasure for our views to harmonize for once.
Who would have thought the three of us, to use Star Wars terminology, are the Jedi Knights representing the good side of The Force against the Sith Lords of the Dark Side preaching their message of doom and gloom.
Phoenix,
You make an excellent point.
What you are referring to is called a Zero Sum Game in game theory. That is a game where there is fixed prize pool being contested so if one player wins he can only do so by taking away money from someone else.
A poker game is a zero sum game if you only consider the financial aspects, but there are more forces at work, even in higher stakes games spread in legal casinos, than just money that make it possible for everyone to leave the game winner—-if you use a broad enough definition of winner.
Many of the players in the bigger games are affluent people who just enjoy playing cards. They know they are long term guaranteed losers but play because they enjoy the action.
On the show High Stakes Poker there are episodes where Jerry Buss, the owner of the Los Angeles Lakers, and Guy Liberte (sp.?) the owner of Circus Soleil are playing in $100K and $500K USD buy in no limit hold em games against the world’s best poker players.
There is also a semi-regular game with Larry Flynt, the publisher of Hustler Magazine spread regularly in Los Angeles where they play $1K-$2K stud and the game consists of Flynt and a line up of world class players.
In both these games, million dollars single session wins and losses are likely to occur.
I am sure all of these extremely wealthy dudes know that playing is going to cost them money in the long run, but they play simply because they enjoy playing cards. In gambling we say they “Enjoy the Action”.
In a broad sense, it is possible for everyone to leave winner even in what appears at first glance to be Zero Sum game.
What goes on between farangs and TG’s is more like what economists call Mutually Beneficial Voluntary Exchange—an exchange where both people are better off after the exchange occurs.
What is contested in Mutually Beneficial Voluntary Exchange is the terms of trade, i.e. the price.
There are a range of prices over which exchange can occur that leave both parties better off, but as the price moves within this range, one party can be left more better off and the other party less better off.
See The Dummies Guide to Negotiating Price with TG Working Girls. http://www.bigmangobar.com/?p=399 .
The negotiations that occur in Thailand between TG’s and farangs is fundamentally the same thing that occurs anywhere in the world.
Before marriage it is quite common for couples to discuss how many children they will have, whether the woman will continue working, where they will live etc.
The terms of “The Deal” can determine whether a couple will go ahead with the marriage and the fact that these terms are discussed does not mean that their relationship is not genuine or the girl is a hooker pr prostitute or that everyone involved cannot end up big winners.
In the USA, any moderately wealthy or even middle class guy who meets a girl and marries her under the standard marriage contract and its’ attendant divorce provisions is gambling with his financial health and future in the truest sense of the world.
In fact, when you consider the amount of money at stake relative to a man’s total wealth, moderately wealthy and even middle class guys are making some truly crazy and ill advised wagers IMHO.
IMHO there is nothing twisted or abnormal thinking about TG/farang relations in this light and there is no cause for a blanket condemnation of all TG’s as evil people.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BBK.
Once again you are spouting off total crap about poker and games.
When are you guys going to realize that Bangkok is different for everybody.
You must live in a very tormented world where you analyse everything instead of relaxing and enjoying. The Farang thinks too much.
I would say that the people you are so keen on preaching to, are having a far better time than you.
And as for the spin on ‘negotiating’ with a BG. What’s the big deal?
- Give her a load of $ and she’ll be your Honey. It’s simple. The more you give her, the better time you’ll have and the more she’ll enjoy it.
Maybe you are not a good a card player as you make out? If you were, you’d not have to go to great lenghts to ‘negotiate.
It’s a real shame that these blogs are filled with people wanting to look at the negatives of Thailand/Bangkok.
View all comments by Devils Advocate
PMMP – Timely blog
Just came back after 15 days in BKK having spent time with my TGF, who, I first met in HK, then subsequently took to KL, Manila and Singapore then back to BKK on biz.
She is a perfect ’10′ and many other Thai girls tell her that she looks like a movie star (from TV3, or a former Miss Thailand – Pianot Pornpradap). Other Farang and Thai guys never fail to try it on with her in clubs and bars, particularly at the Bed and Tunnel club.
Mix that with a naturally shy demeanour, and an unbelievable capacity to fulfil every man’s fantasy in bed, and you get top draw GF material.
She is, as BBK says: ‘a lot of fun, with a great sense of humour, and a lot of experience pleasing and entertaining men in and out of the bedroom.
Catch is…she used to be a BG and although lighter skinned than most Isaan girls – she is Isaan through and though right down to daily double helping of Somtam Lao and noodles and fresh green veg with everything instead of rice.
Money was not an issue until it became apparent; meaning credit card bills and money owed to brother, mother etc …suddenly become a priority for me to settle approaching my departure date.
I did’nt mind the daily to trips to MBK and Robinsons for shoes, new outfits, which is not that much relative to the debt owed.
I try not to think of this is as the usual TG / BG sting but one can’t help but compare this to other people’s experience of sponsoring girls only for them to knob other guys for short term shopping hits whilst am away , or is she the 1 in 25 that actually do care?
Is KISAS the same as just wanting an exclusive, long distance GF?
View all comments by Kalon Man
Kalon man. u know the answer already – deep inside. it is an inconvenient truth for you though and through cognitive dissonance you deny yourself access to this truth.
View all comments by m
BBK: Damn, there seems to be a poker game for everyone and everything
In the end, our views are not as far apart as they seem, I think.
I always enjoy your posts, but I still have a suggestion to make: Since you live in BKK and seem to be in the bar scene I suggest you spice up your rather “academic” posts and comments with some personal stories. You know, like “theory in action”. People don’t only get insight by “scientific” talk but also by other’s experiences. Make your posts more personal. Tell us of your last negotiation with that hottie from cowboy, why you regulary wake up in places you don’t recognize or just what a damn good f**k you had last night and how you got there. I would be a thankful reader
Among the Top 10 sentences, Cream of the Mango Blog:
“They are just trying to find a good man who will be a good husband to them, a good father to their future children, and a good family man and help them support their parents whom they love in their old age-nothing dark or evil going on.”
Very often very right.
View all comments by Phoenix
PMMP – Class write, with a decent amount of bo****ks attached to bring your story to light.
I love my trips to Thailand, enjoy being with my regular girl, under no illusions what goes on when I am back tripping the light dull in the UK. We go out for food, drink, shoot pool, have a good chat, meet friends, then back to the hotel. I get up, go to work, come back, shoot some pool with the hotties, meet my girl in the hotel or wherever. I have walked in many bars where farang know this girl, f**k em. Do I send her money, no, but is this cruel? Do I think shes everything I could want in a girl, sure, but I also live in the real world. But I sure enjoy my time in BKK.
Look after the ladies boys.
P.S Why so many big words used in the blog comments, f**ks my brain right up
View all comments by AUK
I have tried to persuade. but think i have failed. All I can do is refer you to this again: – which explains everything basically:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader2172.htm
Some people have to learn the hard way.
It has happened to pmmp twice now. and every1 is like – get back in there. they are just angels looking for a husband to resuce them etc. they just want a good family man etc. As I have said before – nana is a very dangerous place to the emotionally vulnerable as the illusion of love is sold which can be very intoxicating to some. but ultimately very damaging as pmmp is finding.
people here seem to think of nana as some kind of marriage bureau. as kind of like a shop window for prospective wives. when it is in fact a brothel.
How many people have you met with good long term relationships with prostitutes? And how many have you met that have been left a wreck? This is the crunch issue. And I think if you have spent some time in Thailand you will certainly conclude that the latter number far outweighs the former. Thus, playing the odds – nana is not the place to look for a partner.
View all comments by m
@m: with 13 comments and still going on this blog alone, I’d say you’ve done more than your fair share. When you add in your comments on other blogs as well I’m not sure when you’re finding time to eat or sleep. Given that you mostly repeat the same things in each comment I, for one, would be grateful if you’d rest a bit between comments and add a new one when you have something new to say.
I would have thought that the chorus of voices drowning out your mantra might have caused you to recognize that yours is not the only opinion and that there may be others in the world with opinions that are equally valid.
Written comments don’t disappear… they are there for everyone to read and reference. Do you really think you have to give us the same URL again? Do you think we’re all too dim-witted to find it the first time?
You seem to be an intelligent guy; I encourage you to spend time thinking of some new and interesting things to say.
View all comments by werewolf
@ggg ; of course BG’s spend 100% of their income, nobody ever teached them to save money because their family never had any money to save.
@Combover ; I married a BG in ’93 and brought her and her daughter to Europe. She never cheated me and did everything to please me. She never asked for money to send to her family and I thanked her by cheating on her. As a result, we got divorced in ’05. Some BG’s can make you happy if you let them.
View all comments by hanuman
Ok. i resign my tenure. class dismissed.
13 comments! Wow. I think they should be thread together and put in a pamphlet – given out to arrivals at the Bangkok airports.
Sorry – ok – signing out.
View all comments by m
@hanuman – thanks! at least you for one seem to acknowledge one of the many many problems with having a relationship with these girls. money is one of the major causes of divorce in the West, and probably one of the biggies for relationships with BGs rarely working out.
@m, keep fighting the good fight, you are one of the few who seems to “get it”.
View all comments by go go groupie
Dudes (sorry for using Dudes but I did live in Cali for 10+ years), this turned out way more educational than I could have ever imagined. Great discussion with many sides represented. Thanks all.
m: The stick article is awesome and posting it twice is fine by me since I understand the points you are trying to make but I had to stop reading it half way through. It’s just so cynical and although I do want to be as enlightened as possible I also enjoy being ignorant of certain things. I am having a great time here and want to hold off on becoming too cynical and jaded. I just had an all-nighter with a Patpong beer bar girl. It was one of the best GFE’s I’ve had. Actually, it was like a honeymoon experience. I got sucked into the illusion and it was great.
However, with this thread in mind (just a little bit in mind) I held off on the romantic pillow talk a bit and kept it p4p. She left happy and paid and I felt great. Will I see her again? Maybe one more time, maybe not.
Again, many sides represented here so reader’s of this thread can take a bit from each and be a bit wiser in the end.
View all comments by pmmp
HANUMAN….
“@Combover ; I married a BG in ’93 and brought her and her daughter to Europe. She never cheated me and did everything to please me. She never asked for money to send to her family and I thanked her by cheating on her. As a result, we got divorced in ’05. Some BG’s can make you happy if you let them.”
I don’t really have anything to add to that. It’s obviously a comment very much from the heart and doubtless one that is the product of a good deal of pain and unhappiness.
It just seemed to me to make a point worth underlining, which is this:why, in these relationships that are under our collective microscope right now, do we always talk in terms of ‘us’ saving ‘them’? Just as often, maybe even more often, it could well be the other way around. If we let them.
Thanks for your contribution, Hanuman. Not upbeat for you maybe, but it certainly ought to be for the rest of us.
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
Damn BBK… Star Wars and Poker in the same comment? Are you one of the dudes in this video?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S4B6xDtAYew
View all comments by Orion
@OAH: Hear, hear. Many of us expect standards from our women – bargirls or not – which we ourselves cannot achieve.
The Stick link is relentlessly negative, and very one sided I feel.
Here’s a book I enjoyed, though it’s by no means perfect or the full story, but it’s one you can read together with your teerak. If you dare…
http://thailandfever.com/
View all comments by Combover
WOWSER. this thread has to win the award for the most commented thread in the shortest period of time.
That is my only comment.
View all comments by smitty
The same old theme pushing the same old buttons!
(BTW I believe a ‘wowser’ is a killjoy down in Flyland. Perhaps our Antipodean cousins can confirm…)
View all comments by Combover
C’mon Smitty… you must be able to give us some tales of you getting fucked over?!
Then, we can all ridicule you and give our advice, because we seem to ‘know it all’?
We will no doubt be able to find a URL of some sort and recommend that you read ‘Private Dancer’..(again)
At some point your tale will be compared to a poker game and then you’ll be told all about the ‘rules’.
Or am I just being cynical?
:megreen:
View all comments by Day walker
I wonder are there any more of us here who would willing to draw parallels between their hobbies and the Thai bargirl scene? I think poker has been pretty much done to death.
Anyone here into flower arranging, or perhaps fishing, or paintballing, or anything, who would be willing and able to articulately put into words a case for their pastime to be exactly like shagging bargirls (or indeed like “making love to a beautiful woman” as Swiss Toni might have said)?
Or is the Thai bargirl scene our only hobby?
View all comments by Combover
Combover – I have an aquarium, let’s talk soapy
View all comments by Orion
Ladyboys and mopeds.
– Fun to ride, but you wouldn’t want your mates to see you on one.
View all comments by Day walker
Well I’m a keen diver, but that’s been done already…
http://www.pattayacrazy.com/downloads/Paciform_June_2003.pdf
View all comments by Combover
dw – at this point I think my life’s dirty laundry is more than out there for the world too see.
co – that is pretty funny. I know a keen reader and contributor of this blog had a bargirl law contract that he worked on for a while. Was also well done and along the lines of that diving doc.
View all comments by smitty
@ Combover: Fishing for sure.
Mall pick-ups? Dry fly
Office hotties? Wet fly
G-club pick-ups? Wet fly
Disaco’s? Wet fly
Go-go’s? Live bait
Beer bars? Bait casting
After hours? Poppers, Lures, hard tackle
Miracle mile? Trolling w/ live bait.
Tulip et al? The Alfred Nobel wobbler
Nana parking lot . . . . . Shooting fish in a barrel?
and so on
View all comments by thongsuk
Chaps: Thank you for the honorable mention in your blog.
I am humbled at the very implication that my grumblings mean anything to anyone else. They are (as amply demonstrated from time to time) a means of releasing the inner pressures of Thailand expat living.
View all comments by thongsuk
ts – I figured it would be a team effort to get the cliff notes sorted…
View all comments by smitty
I wont touch this thread until the story has ended..
DW … Drinks Next Thursday.
View all comments by GoodLife
gl – Given that you are practically married I am wondering what u have to offer this thread.
my guess with pmmp is that this only happens to him when the girls are superhot and there is enough months that have passed since the last time this happened. She is damn hot too so the story is never really over.
As DW mentioned:
Hang on a minute…. before we all start feeling sorry for pmmp and offering him our Sisters (or Mothers), remember that the extent of his problem was that he had to blow-off a ‘hot-chick’.
I think we’d all like those problems?
— see the problem us expats have here is no one really takes us seriously. Most of us are blessed with too many hot chicks and girls we would never get in the RW. So our issues revolve around the deeper things like what pmmp is describing or my hunt for perfect 3somes or how to organize our lives around the abundance of women. I don’t assume that those back in the RW grasp the brevity of the situation.
View all comments by smitty
Smitty… My Avitar was just for you ——->
View all comments by GoodLife
@ Goodwife…
Man, I thought you died on the back of a taxi-motorbike?
- Or am I getting you confused with someone else?
Give my love to ‘Joy’
View all comments by Devils Advocate
Am I the only one who does not see ‘hotness’ as the key issue? For sure, hotness is great for fun, but surely ‘goodness’ (OK given that she reaches a certain level of acceptability on the hotness scale) is the most important factor in any relationship longer than a coupla weeks.
Our difficulty, it would seem, is being unable to distinguish between hotness and goodness when it comes to choosing a suitable partner. Hotness is great for our ego, but goodness is best for our soul.
View all comments by Combover
yeah…. ‘hotness’ wins everytime to me.
View all comments by Day Walker
Oh piffle, DW. The kind of guys for whom hotness wins ‘every’ time are the types who cry themselves to sleep when no-one is looking. No one’s ego can need that much reassurance surely…?
View all comments by Combover
erm… again… ‘hotness’ wins for me.
I don’t mind crying myself to sleep at night, as my sheets are waterproof. Which comes in handy with the ‘hot’ chicks.
But mostly, I just cry out of laughter!
Yes.. I really am that shallow.
View all comments by Day Walker
“But mostly, I just cry out of laughter!”
Yes, there’s a lot to be said for funny chicks too…
View all comments by Combover
You have to pay extra for the funny looks.
A ‘coupla weeks’ is about as long a relationship as I want.
Besides, if we all had longer relationships, there would 7-11′s closing down all over the place.
Think of all the toothbrushes, facial scrubs and magazines that would be left on the shelves.
View all comments by Day Walker
@ Combover: I would say it is more of an ‘unwillingness’ “to distinguish between hotness and goodness when it comes to choosing a suitable partner. We succumb to that temptation to ‘show score’ to the lads and ignore that ‘khon dii’ aspect that may be standing quietly right before our eyes.
Here in Bkk one cannot escape the life truth that it is often one’s soul that needs a good tending to. A good rascal, having been through the fires herself can tend masterfully to that as well as what she’s advertising. (Hot GTG’s from ANY walk are in play here pmmp)
With such a mind numbingly confusing selection on offer, there are loads of good ones (to be found within the full range) around who can do both.
As well, once in a while it’s just good policy to have a look in the mirror to see what it is besides security that WE have to offer
View all comments by thongsuk
@TS: Mirrors are banned in Casa Combover. It’s less and less each time I look
View all comments by Combover
You guys are bringing up a great point about when they are hot. The fact that this last girl was not only a damsel in distress but also hot played a huge part in it. Remember, I’m 40+ and lived in the US most of those 40 years. My last girlfriend when I left the US was late 30′s, weighed a little less than I did, had early formations of cottage cheese ass, wasn’t that great in bed, and had a poster in her bedroom of Hilary Clinton giving Bill a golden shower.
I honestly thought to myself at least two or three times every minute how blessed I am that a girl so beautiful could be interested in me. It wasn’t at all about parading her around or boosting my ego either since anybody can get a hottie here. (in fact, it drives me nuts when other guys let it go their head. I want to shake them and say it’s not you it’s your money but better to just let them enjoy their little ego trip.)
It’s almost impossible to not let the looks affect you. Maybe I’m shallow like dw but I can’t help it. It’s just natural attraction where the lower half of your body shuts down the logic center of your brain.
Recently, after the breakup, this latest girl came over in a rather bulky sweater coat thing in the middle of the day. She asked if I wanted to see what was underneath. At this point my brain switched off and I said yes. She revealed see-through lingerie with a red g-string and I just went numb. One of those moments where time freezes so that the image can properly be burnt into the permanent storage of your brain. Luckily she left as the drool from my mouth started to form a little puddle near my feet.
A young killer hot Thai girl is Kryptonite to me. Add distress and I think I have the answer to why I keep falling. I’m glad though that I have a support group here to help me out.
View all comments by pmmp
pmmp… you (and I) should not have to justify being attracted to ‘hot girls’.
Next people will start saying we should have things like ‘emotions, feelings, guilt’ etc… that people have in the Real World.
Question… has anyone ever ‘rescued’ a girl from a BJ bar?
View all comments by Day walker
Combover
“I wonder are there any more of us here who would willing to draw parallels between their hobbies and the Thai bargirl scene? I think poker has been pretty much done to death.”
I can’t find a hobby to compare to, but I have noticed similarities when choosing a car and choosing a Thai girl.
My requirements are….
Looks,
Performance
Handling
Your mates want to ride in it
I don’t much consider….
Running costs
Fuel Consumption
Reliability
Safety
Color
However, it does need to be kept in a locked garage, as some little git may come along and steal it?!
- oh… and they both look better when wet.
View all comments by Day walker
low mileage is key, also a recent model is preferable.
View all comments by go go groupie
And I want an automatic drive that knows which gear fits which driving situation. Don’t want to shift each gear myself but let the car anticipate the speed
View all comments by Phoenix
The problem with hotness and goodness is that many guys idealize hot women and convince themselves they are as good as they are hot.
For me hotness and fun are the winners, she can only show she’s not good if you give her the opportunity to screw you, until then it can be faked. If you ever hear yourself say or think “but she’s different”, BG or GTG, pick up a hammer and hit yourself on the head with it.
View all comments by Orion
@ggg The model can’t be too recent. They always suffer from ‘teething problems’…..
(read into that what you will!)
View all comments by Day walker
you may notice that a hot car and a hot chick will nearly always have a prick in it.
View all comments by Devils Advocate
Lot of clinched sayings being passed around. I’ll add “Don’t let opportunity pass you buy”.
There are some absolute gems out there – the trick is knowing them when you find them ad not getting in over your head.
Oh – and you need to be living with them. The horny darlings are… well… horny, and they are not going to remain celibate for more than a few weeks and then only if they think you are serious. If you are just visiting 2 or 3 months a year they are not going to put their life on hold on the off chance that you really *are* going to retire and move here in a few years time – trust needs visible and verifiable commitment from both sides, and commitment does not equal money.
I suspect “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth” doesn’t apply in this situation though. Buyer beware
View all comments by Cabby
does anyone have a story about the bargirl farang thing working out just wondering……..
View all comments by yes man
Just watched a great darts game on ITV4. Was there any other sport on TV in the UK tonight?
View all comments by AUK
@ yesman: This is a positive subject.
But what do you mean by working out, “ym”?
What are your terms of reference?
If you mean as opposed to GTG’s and happily hitched couples all over the world I’d say that it follows the norm for these things in general. If it relates to a co-operative, goal-oriented, mutually beneficial, tantrum free existence there are many.
The smooth ones rarely make the six o’clock news.
I am reluctant to go all relativist here but I suspect that it simply depends on the individuals involved and the level of mutual respect.
View all comments by thongsuk
yesman – does anyone have a story of a marriage of a farang couple failing, with the husband being screwed out of half his assets after the divorce?
View all comments by Orion
I saw a bargirl – farang couple in a supermarket car park in the UK the other day. As we drove by I screamed “nana” out of the window. Entertained me no end.
View all comments by m
Chaps: I rest my case.
View all comments by Thongsuk
Well done ‘M’
What’s next.. offering drugs outside a re-hab center?
View all comments by Day Walker
Didnt inflame you as I thought it would. thought it might be the fulcrum to a new poetic verse. I am your inspiration thongsuk!
View all comments by m
@ M:I might be missing the point,but are you a fan of Nana Mouskouri? I don’t find her so entertaining.
View all comments by hanuman
I had to look her up. i am now.
View all comments by m
What did your parents think as you hung out of their car in the
toys R us carpark?
View all comments by Day Walker
they were so proud.
View all comments by m
@m: you display a rare meanness of spirirt.
View all comments by Combover
@pmmp Having trawled my way through this monster article I’m amazed that nobody has asked the most fundamental question of all…..
What is that girl’s phone number?
View all comments by tripper
@ Orion: This VAST subject is fascinating. A few years ago after watching about ten guys go to the wall in exactly this fashion I concocted Thongsuk’s theory of why our team does this (What you said) so frequently.
It works in every case. And not with BG’s and GTG’s. Every case.
(So I’m probably just plagiarizing)
View all comments by Thongsuk
tripper: hehe. Like em crazy eh? So do I but not this crazy so will spare you the agony. Unless you’re into agony then I would say you’re better off going to AW and asking for DTR. Tell him you’re a big fan of his website. The leg humping you will get for the next hour will surely be more agonizing than anything you can get from a crazed bargirl.
View all comments by pmmp
If I was to rescue a hooker I would do it like Robert De Niro in Taxi driver.
View all comments by m
@pmmp Not DTW again! There are better, and much more enjoyable, fixations.
View all comments by tripper
tripper/room: I’ll be putting her number on eBay shortly.
M: The Thai version of that film was called ‘Tuk-Tuk Driver’
View all comments by Day walker
@ m : I was think’ that you’d do it more like Geena Gershon in Bound but the Jodi-dyke thing also has some play there as well “m”
View all comments by Thongsuk
The rescue thing is strange – cause you kind of rescuing them by inflicting upon them the very thing they want rescuing from. which isn’t really a rescue. they f*cking a farang twice their age for money. and then they rescued and they f*cking a farang twice their age for money.
I think when looking for a more serious partner and you want do this by exploiting an economic differential there so much better places to ride it than lower suk. and even thailand for that matter. So many cant see past nana. but there is a whole world out there.
if you want keep to issaan women – spend some time in the villages and cut the birds off at the source. there plenty of families there that would sell a daughter.
View all comments by m
tripper: true enough. It’s just the first thing that came to mind. How sad is that? I’ll stop now.
View all comments by pmmp
@pmmp – I don’t know if it’s KiSAS, I think that it’s just the biological reaction happening from spending too much time with the same girl. You can’t help caring. It’s just whether they really care or not thats important. I think it’s dangerous to spend more than 3 nights with the same bargirl.But when the sex is great and your feeling lazy it’s too easy to call her again. I have a get out clause that no matter how deep I go I have to leave for 3 months giving my head time to clear.
@Smitty – I like pmmp love banging the bar girls but have recently started to branch out. I like girls who are good at sex and I was wondering if the good girls are as “keng mak” like some of there bad sisters. It always seems harder with the good girls, the amount of effort and leading them along seems a lot worse compared to bargirls who are providing service and know where they stand.
View all comments by Young Royal
The tuk-tuk driver can bore Harvey Keitel to death with his neverending question; “Soapy, soapy?”
View all comments by hanuman
@ All regarding “m”: At first I found this poster’s overall POV to be extremely offensive. “M” launches into the “stock in trade” hate speech of a woman dying for engagement with every post she makes. Is it any wonder she feels lonely? Ignored? Unfukced?
It’s clear at this point that “m”‘s so desperate for contact and involvement with men he’d settle for a slap, a body slam and anal rape.
I suspect she’s STILL spinning around in a frenzy of self examination at having outed herself as a woman a few days ago. However, I’ve just realized that this board has actually made its first live-specimen “Silverbelly” capture and this fat, slithery, slimy, “pla buk”-like, fish-thing is currently flopping around in her cage like some kind of air-breathing member of the bottom-feeder family.
The croaks and gasps we get from her are just “m” – getting used to the room.
She’s not dying.
She’s just gasping for engagement.
If anyone wishes to re-fresh reasons why they have settled here in the Orient and have either begun a life of connubial bliss, serial monogamy, utter sexual depravity, or solitary masturbation they have only to savor “m”‘s musings as the Zeitgeist of western woman-thought .
Thanks for putting her on display here where her disgusting thoughts and limbic utterances can be perused and examined from time to time.
If anyone wants to have a whiff of the smoldering, seeping love-purse she traps between her steaming British thighs, I suggest they stand behind the “re-cycling” truck on any main street as the boys get into their sorting frenzy.
The very notion that divorce laws in the UK or any other Western marital labyrinth would extort/blackmail an innocent man into abandoning all hope of fleeing a hosebag whinger of this caliber is an actual crime against humanity.
I’m betting on a pimply, rashy, gingy-red minge , a sagging arse and an adipose apron, white as a frog’s belly and the size of an elephant’s scrotum hanging over her belt-line.
View all comments by Thongsuk
I got the urge once to let the tuk-tuk driver take me to a ‘soapy’ and pay for HIM to get one. Not because I am a really nice guy, but because the little urchin needed a bath.
View all comments by Day walker
Guys think they are rescuing a prozzie by buying her ladydrinks and bar fining her. Taking her away from that awful place where men buy her ladydrinks and barfine her.
Robert de niro’s “taxi driver” doesnt buy any lady drinks. Perhaps he is a cheap charlie.
View all comments by m
yr – great points. I have had a few flings with the normal girls. Had a very serious fling in HK with a proper thai. Bottom line – horrible in the sack and it led me astray because when I wanted some serious rooting I turned to the pros. With the pros I don’t think it is just about experience but it is attitude. They are more open about the whole thing and realize they need to please u. One wants a proper girl in public but a whore in bed. Tough call.
View all comments by smitty
“At first I found this poster’s overall POV to be extremely offensive.”
Sorry about that. But as you go on to illustrate. I am a woman. So its not offensive at all. Thus all is well.
View all comments by m
@ “m” Why didn’t you say so earlier? I want a straight answer to this.
View all comments by Thongsuk
I am a pre-operative ladyboy. This can be rounded to my being a woman.
View all comments by m
According to m, every asian woman staying abroad,is or was a hooker.
View all comments by hanuman
Or only when she was seen together with a farang
View all comments by hanuman
@ “m” Far more repellent than any physical slurs I could flash on your screen are:
1) your very own self-admitted crimes against logic (“I am a woman. So its not offensive at all. Thus all is well. I am a pre-operative ladyboy”. ,(?HUH?),
2) hate speech (“- spend some time in the villages and cut the birds off at the source. there plenty of families there that would sell a daughter” ) (reaeeel nice talk) and
3) a risible paucity of intellect (“This can be rounded to my being a woman” ) Really? By what criterion of pretzel logic can we arrive at THAT gem of a conclusion.
Are you trying to sexually stereotype yourself?
Because you’ve done a MASTERFUL job up to now, sweetie.
View all comments by Thongsuk
okay boys. This thread now has 150+ comments. When they are good and on-topic they form a treasure trove of information and make for a valuable part of the post. When they come down to a few people trading information that seems irrelevant to the original post then the original value of the post starts to go down. I want the value of the posts to go up. Not down.
This is not a discussion board and for very good reason. Go to thai visa that. Lots of random chatting with very little substance. In fact. I never use the site. I use google and sometimes it takes me to posts on thai visa and I read them and then I close the browser window. That’s how much I love thai visa. This is not thai visa.
I love all of u.
m – I am flattered u used this humble blog to come out.
Props.
Can we move on folks? Nothing to see here. Like a train wreck. Once u clear the tracks things get back to business as usual.
Consider this comment the clearing of the tracks. I hear the next train coming through now.
How about them Giants?
View all comments by smitty
auk – curling.
View all comments by smitty
@Smitty — Here here!! The last thing the world needs is another Thai Visa. No sense letting your blog get hijacked by verbose posters with nothing of substance to say.
Look to Jack Dawson for inspiration! Brevity is the soul of wit.
View all comments by Common Sense
Where do you find these P4P model type chicks who aren’t working in lower Suk or in a Soapy/Massage/G-Club? I’m getting frustrated trying to find them.
View all comments by Torn
t – I don’t think u can find real models who u can pay for sex. For the cuties that are the type and available I think the sideline girls at places like Victoria are awesome. I think u just have to go often enough and then get a number for the right girls.
they work in places like this to be discreet. Maybe there is some online way of finding them that I am not aware of.
View all comments by smitty
Models lounge in poseiden. Penthouse models there. Ask to see the portfolios – will be a folder of their penthouse “spreads”. And other modelling work. Then make a booking.
View all comments by m
m – correct but I would say maybe 25% of the models floor is actually models. Then some small subset of that can actually show u their spread in a mag. I have hired the “penthouse” girls before and know their manager. most hanging on the models floor are want to be models needing to make money. A real model would not need to be there. Also the penthouse model thing is kind of a big scam in my opinion.
Agreed that the models floor or the sideline girls is where to find the hotties but u may be letdown with the skills. I once saw a hottie at Victoria. She wanted 5000 baht – she was a budding VJ but needed to pay the bills.
At poseiden try to find the girls that can actually show u their pics in the mag – not just pics in a book.
View all comments by smitty
For sure. Ive been to that floor. The “models” floor. I didnt see any models. i think it goes by a picture folder and booking system. I think the models never actually hanging out there. only come in for bookings. Ive never actually done it. Would be interested to know how it works actually.
So – u think the penthouse thing a con cause they never actually been in penthouse? Or they not as hot as u would imagine a penthouse bird be?
View all comments by m
You can find some penthouse and cute mag girls in the gogo’s. I went through a stage of only barfining these but soon go bored.
View all comments by Young Royal
Thanks, I’ll check those places out. I don’t really care if they are really models or not. It’s just that the whole trashy and overly tattooed look isn’t my thing.
@YoungRoyal: Which go-go’s?
View all comments by Torn
@Torn: trashy, overly tattooed, pierced, blonde, 40kg and wearing almost nothing in the street.
Utterly fantastic! But only now & again in Pattaya.
View all comments by Combover
most have never been in penthouse
or they have been in one group shoot or have tested for them
I know the dude who manages them for parties
once again – a real model is not for sale and would not jeopardize her career like that
however there are some cuties around in the models and sideline areas
View all comments by smitty
dam. smitty. burst a bit of a bubble for me there. So where does this penthouse notion come from? Do they (poseiden) actively perpetuate it? Or is it just some1 got rong end of stick – and propigated it, and now it is a bangkok urban myth ever since.
View all comments by m
m – not saying some are not there but not everyone on those floors is. Like – i said, ask to see them in the mag. I think u will find some hotties on these floors and the sideline girls. i was just saying a real model would not be that easy to bag.
View all comments by smitty
I mean for sure. Ive been that floor. And that line up was not of models. In fact, that line up was a bit of a disgrace. I mean where they all sitting there on that couch. So, I guessed that the models only came in for appointments and werent hanging on the couch. I didnt ask. Will maybe go back and ask one day.
View all comments by m
The actual models are usually available but it’s a little more discrete than just picking them out from a line-up.
They might work through an agent who you can call to arrange a meeting. The agent and the girl might meet you for dinner and if you like the girl you can continue the evening with her. Price 10,000bht, or more if they’re well known.
View all comments by Orion
A very wise man left a comment somewhere on the sadly defunct Bangkok Bad Boy blog to the effect that (bear with me, this is really on-topic) Bangkok is a theme park; and you don’t fall in love with a cartoon character when you go to Disneyland.
But yeah and anyway, it’s a mistake I’ve made, only once. Have a t-shirt printed up with MY PENIS IS NOT YOUR ATM, and see how far love gets you.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Hi m: “I guessed that the models only came in for appointments and werent hanging on the couch. I didnt ask. Will maybe go back and ask one day.”
So what was the job interview like?
Or did you pull the usual “fake-bi” frame that backpacker chicks run in go-go bars and such venues when they’re trying to elicit interest from a pack of giddy soap-dodgers
View all comments by thongsuk
thongsuk – you seem to believe that anyone who doesnt feel that girlfriending and marrying prostitutes is the way forward to be a woman. If it helps you through things..then ok.
View all comments by m
More hackneyed, feminist cant from “m”.
Seems she’s not a native speaker (and that’s cool, you use English better than I use any other language I’ve acquired) or perhaps she is a native speaker and she she was a mite drunk when she posted.
(i.e. “the way forward to be a woman” is a somewhat difficult turn of phrase.)
What actually did you mean there, “m”?
Would you please clarify?
But please come clean as a female poster (and stop running this, “I’m a monger ” ruse. We could actually have a decent conversation if you’d play straight. But it seems that every time you get a few Long Island Iced Teas into your neck we get another round of “schtik.”
View all comments by thongsuk
I am just a man with a bit of testosterone and pride running through his veins.
View all comments by m
“I am just a man with a bit of testosterone and pride running through his veins.” – but unfortunately not too much clarity running through your syntax. I mean, thongsuk has a point:
“you seem to believe that anyone who doesnt feel that girlfriending and marrying prostitutes is the way forward to be a woman.” – what does this mean? He’d like to know, I would … care to give it another shot?
View all comments by Pants Elk
Thongsuk has concluded that because I disagree with him – that marrying a hooker is a bad idea – I must be a woman. As all men want to marry hookers and think it is a jolly good idea.
View all comments by m
“m” We’re not in a “red brick” dorm surrounded by coven of unappealing, poorly groomed women with poor fashion sense; a pack of angry, dateless harridans un-engaged by men and overly steeped in heady “Women’s Studies” sophistry and the tired pop- semiotics of sexual politics.
You’re on the shelf, honey.
You’re bitter and you’re so desperate for engagement you keep coming back here to bait us with a fake POV on a topic of which you have little or no knowledge.
Keep talking, as your sophist leftovers accumulate over time even you will need only review them to understand how clearly you’ve outed yourself.
OR
Cut the male posturing and speak with us.
We’re not as bad as you’ve made us out to be.
Finally, nobody’s perfect.If you’d like to see how a real woman talks about the Thai competition check THIS out.
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader2007/reader4109.htm
View all comments by thongsuk
I read the piece. I believe her when she says she’s beautiful, so I don’t really understand why she wrote it. What’s her problem? That men *still* prefer Thai women to her and treat them better? That she is untypical of western women and therefore invalidates western men’s negative perceptions of westen women? She says at one point that Thai women look like eleven year-olds when they wear shorts, and then goes on to say that Thai women are just as varied in appearance as western women. I think she’s confused. How western women view Thai women and the way “their” men react to them is apparent in every couple that enters a Bangkok club to sample a bit of “naughty nightlife”. The female partner feels threatened, ignored, overweight, unsexy, and suddenly no longer in the driving seat. We’ve all seen it – she stalks off muttering “never again” leaving her dog-eyed male to linger for a heartbreaking moment before he follows his mate in the true Walk Of Shame.
Some western women seek to reclaim their lost power by engaging their exploited “sisters” in conversation, bonding with them and sympathising with their plight as slaves to the sex trade. It’s just a shame no Thai girl understands (nor needs to) what an *issue* is.
And some other western women, a very few, find the girls as much of a turn-on as the men do. A friend’s girlfriend, on her first visit to BKK, was practically coming in her pants at the sight of all that available sex … now THAT’s what I call emancipation.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Poor “m”: My point, of course, was simply that the Swedish Princess IS the real deal and I believe she “represents” truthfully.
Hurt, befuddled and somewhat set aback by something that happened to her as a woman here, she nevertheless remains FULL of confidence with her big=time pussy status.
Voicing out like a really hot Swedish Essex Girl, S.P. is likely EVERYTHING she says she is so I gave her street cred as a stunner.
S.P. has more balls than “monger-boy ‘m’” who comes off like an East Anglia Women’s Studies grad after losing her “Nigel” to Noi at a Hat Rinn Full Moon party in Ko Pa Ngan.
Apparently at the end of her piece, SP’d had found her a way to get over it: she was out of time — Ramon was rolling her over for another go.
On the other hand, back there in the UK, “m”, prefers to assuage her damaged psyche by yelling racial taunts at mixed couples in Tesco parking lots.
View all comments by thongsuk
This could go on and on. I am a man. No, you are a woman. I am a man. No, you are a woman. etc. etc.
In conclusion, there is a point of view, which spans a lot of members of both sexes, that getting romantically involved with prostitutes is a bad idea and to be avoided for the best chance of happiness.
This is especially true in Thailand because the situation is perilous as a lot of the hookers have figured out that they can make more money by selling love (illusion of) than sex. So, there is the real potential for getting taken for a ride. A ride you won’t be aware that you are on until it is too late and you are left financially and emotionally hurt.
View all comments by m
What she said.
View all comments by Pants Elk
‘m” said: “. . . there is a point of view, which spans a lot of members of both sexes, that getting romantically involved (on) . . . a ride you won’t be aware that you are on until it is too late and you are left financially and emotionally hurt.”
Hey “m”, as long as you’re being all inclusionary here (“spanning both sexes”) you have described almost perfectly just what happens to MEN (almost exclusively) who fall afoul of the “Family Law Reform Act” in ANY jurisdiction ANYWHERE in the West.
As things are structured now, most men who marry ruin their lives.
I’ve heard MANY more accounts of guys who’ve had their lives ruined when they got themselves fucked over by formerly “loving” women in Western jurisdictions; “newly empowered” women who’d suddenly become “disillusioned and stifled” by their boring marriages and had decided to strike out bravely on their own. (with ALL the man’s worldly assets in tow.)
So before you so off-handedly dismiss the relevancy of your being a woman posting as a man and the relevancy of our being able to unmask you, I suggest you come clean so we can have a decent discussion.
I suspect that once they’d focussed, few here if any, ever saw you as a man anyway. We were just being chivalrous and polite and, like, holding the door and all that other disgustingly male, chauvinistic stuff.
EVERY turn of thought, every non sequitur, every facile assumption you’ve made along with all the “male” window dressing you threw in simply gave you away.
We’re equal but different; and that difference shows every time you try to post as “m” with a male POV.
Come clean. We’ll talk.
(Or are you a misandrist?) I had to make that word up because there exists NO counterpart for “misogynist” with which to describe women who hate men. (misanthropist was already taken)
View all comments by thongsuk
Sounds like a perfect description of my marriage to a very hi-so non-hooker in Australia. She’s now re-married to a doctor, the poor buggar.
View all comments by werewolf
- Sounds like a description of a typical English woman also.
(except they’re all fat)
View all comments by Daywalker
Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that any minute now we’re gonna get a Lolita’s field report from “m” ?
View all comments by thongsuk
Is ‘m’ working at Lolitas now then?
View all comments by Daywalker
@ Daywalker Doubt it. Actually I’m betting that to cling to this “male” persona thing she’ll just hit the Lolita’s site, pick up some details, and then do a mental rewind to the last time she gave some guy head (Dunno why but I figure she’s pretty good at it
and then to get her “male cred” thing up and running again she’ll re-write it as if she were a decrepit male sinner much like me-self getting a Lolita’s hummer.
C-a-a-a-a-a ‘m-o-o-o-o-on “m”.
Out with it.
(Get ‘em off
We can have a chat about all this confusion instead of you wasting yourself online pretending you have a willi. And you can, um, you know, g’is that re-wind and share what it’s like to ……n-a-a-a-a-a-w
(One step at a time)
View all comments by thongsuk
I reckon ‘m’ is PMMPs/smittys alter-ego.?
View all comments by Daywalker
“Dick Masterson” has some sagely things to tell us about marriage:
http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/fat-girls-are-obsessed-with-marriage/#more-618
View all comments by Pants Elk
M is PMMP without the PEE PEE
View all comments by hanuman
dw – for everyone’s safety u should stop reckoning.
pe – that shit is funny.
“I get my bacon from the butcher, thank you very much.” ouch.
View all comments by smitty
smitty, I’m encrypting this response so only you can read it (I’m new at this stuff, but I think I’ve got it right) – I get a queasy feeling Daywalker’s reckoning is dead on – wasn’t it you who described yourself as “the hottest chick in the disco”? Hey – it’s okay, man – I’m not judging you – I just think you’d be happier “out”.
View all comments by Pants Elk
pe – I got it but it is actually pmmp who said it.
The riddle grows…
View all comments by smitty
Ri-ight. Anyway, I think it’s time everyone just stopped going on about how he said he was “the hottest chick in the disco.” He must be tired of hearing how he said he was “the hottest chick in the disco” and people should respect that and move on, goddammit. It’s not like saying you’re “the hottest chick in the disco” is a crime or anything. I for one will never mention the words “the hottest chick in the disco” again, and I urge others to follow my lead.
View all comments by Pants Elk
At this moment I am the hottest chick in the Duke. Well, if you don’t count our bartender, the woman bartender that is.
View all comments by pmmp
Just the two of you in there, then?
View all comments by TAFKABBB
The rest are in the toilets trying to clean their arses without paper.
View all comments by Pants Elk
3B’s new avatar shows pmmp’s breasts straining to escape their Victoria’s Secret over-the-shoulder-boulder-holder.
View all comments by Pants Elk
oh, I see those are breasts. ok, now I get it.
View all comments by thongsuk
Not wanting to drag this tread out toooooooo much… but getting back to the original post..
pmmp… now that several weeks have passed and this tart is now a distant memory. Knowing what we know about her now……
Have you asked yourself… “WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING”?
- Just wondered?
View all comments by Daywalker
When the shoe hit me in the head I lost all memories. Sorry.
View all comments by pmmp
hahaha
i just love that misnomer “hi-so.” someone used it on here. it makes me laugh…a lot. I guess “hi-so” in the third-world means you have shoes! How incongruous. just the very idea that Thailand has anything resembling high society.
View all comments by jonbanger
jb: It’s not a very large hi-so community but it is here for sure. There is some huge money and all the art and culture to go with it.
View all comments by pmmp
I have ‘seen’ the Hi-So crowd. There are loads of them at the Royal Bangkok Sports Club. No, I am not a member, but when in town,I do get taken for lunch. Its stunning, sat on the verandah overlooking the Race course, the golfcourse etc.
View all comments by AUK
Where is Soi 4?
View all comments by AUK
BUMP. Don’t let this happen to you.
View all comments by Bose
OK its 17 months after the last post on this thread but i read some pretty interesting stuff, gained some insight, and heard some shite too.
My experience of Thai women has been mixed, i can totally see how some guys would end up with KISAS.
On a couple of occassions i have had fleeting thoughts of charging in and rescuing the day for a couple of TG’s. One of the a freelancer i met Soi 4, and the other was a TG working in a thai massage shop near Asoke.
However, on both occassions after some thought i realised that there are so many girls in a similar situation that you cant go around thinking you’re superman trying to save the day for everyone. Some TG/ BG/ Freelancers aren’t needing saving, sure they would like a loving man and to settle down with security, but, with the money some of these girls earn, they don’t want to stop just yet.
I rationally thought about this and realised that if a BG/ freelancer had only one punter a night at just 1,500 baht a time, then she would be earning about 45k baht a month tax free, more than some farang english teachers!!
Anyway, onto the Freelancer story – the girl i almost fell into the KISAS trap, she was late 20′s turned out to be a bit of a psycho.
Here’s my story;
I touched down at bkk intl. airport around 7pm, arrived at my hotel by half eight. As soon as i got to my room i was showering, shaving and getting ready for a night out.
I headed for the NEP nearer 10pm and took the usual broken down esculator to the first floor, a little look around the bars, settled in one with a beer but kept getting badgered by a BG i wasnt interested in so i walked.
Took a quick walk-around the ground floor but i didnt see anything that really caught my eye so i headed to Morning 2 Night pool bar. In the past i have spent a couple of hours in here shooting pool, enjoying the rock music and eyeing the occassional hotties that go in there.
By about half midnight i hadnt really been keen on anything in the bar, but enjoyed the pool, cold beer and music all the same, so i headed back to my hotel bar to take a look around.
Two drinks later she walked into the bar with 2 friends and i thought Mmmm she’s a bit of alright. I looked in her direction a few times and eventually we locked eyes, she smiled (cute), with a subtle facial expression she took the hint and wandered over to me.
She had a pretty face, long straight hair, cute facial features, narrow nose and gorgeous eyes, curvy and her english was pretty good.
By 3am and a few drinks later we ended up back in my hotel room and just went to bed to sleep, she was tired too and i was so fucked from the long flight having only arrived about 8 hours earlier.
During the night we ended up rocking the bedposts a couple of times, and again late morning when we both finally awoke.
I paid a typical 1,500, and we agreed to meet up again later that night and she would stay with me again. I suggested dinner and a few dinks after.
That night i took her to an Italian restaurant that i hadnt been to before, clearly she was out of her depth and i attempted to help her choose something for dinner.
Anyway, after that she took me to a couple of back street bars where her friends drink, we had fun, she was playing girlfriend – cuddling up to me, sitting close and being attentive – you get the picture.
Ended up back at my hotel room and another great night.
During all of this time we did talk and find out some things about each other, i thought she was lovely.
Following night we werent together as i had only 2 nights left in BKK before flying down to Samui, and i wanted a night out alone in the pool bar.
The last night in BKK we got together, started at the pool bar on soi 4 and were going to go on from there etc. Some how we ended up having words with each other and since she was staying at my hotel i gave her the key to the room, (N.B. all valuables locked up in the safe), so i wasnt bothered. Anyway i didnt get back to my hotel room til about 1am and she went nuts on me shouting and getting all emotional, so, i suggested she get a taxi and leave, this, was the start of my problems.
Eventually we were found ourselves several yards outside my hotel room door in the corridor with her on her knees prostrating herself clinging onto my ankles crying. FFS how the hell did i get into this situation!?
I told her she had to go, but she would let go, as i pulled away she was still attached to my leg and dragging her across the floor, damn i thought, i really dont need this. Eventually she let go and collected her bag from my room and went.
I closed the door to my room sat on the edge of the bed reflecting on what just happened, and how & why? Shaking my head i needed a drink, the clock was showing almost 2am, i headed down to the hotel bar to find it serving last orders, i got a double and spotted my BG friend (nok) sitting alone.
I wondered over, sat down and proceeded to tell her what happened.
I realised that i’d had a lucky escape from a woman who clearly had a screw loose.
The night turned out ok in the end because about an hour later i was back in my hotel room banging the ass off of nok.
Based on my experiences and understanding of the scene i now realise that i only want a short-term thing with BG’s/ Freelancers, and its a strictly money for sex set-up, just a few drinks but no getting involved, no getting sucked into they need a bit more money because they need to get something for their young daughter, or, they live a long way from Bkk.
I treat these girls as they treat me, this philosophy i apply anywhere in the world regardless of whether they are hookers or ordinary girls.
View all comments by Eddie T
It is now 2009. Are you cured of this syndrome yet?
View all comments by 8 Ball
@8 Ball: I think it’s like alcoholism in that you’re never really cured. I’m not rescuing anyone right now but one drink and who knows. I’m certainly more cautious about the whole thing.
View all comments by pmmp