Comments on: Hi-So Lo-So by Werewolf http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/ drink and blog Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:27:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: werewolf http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-113033 werewolf Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:42:18 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-113033 Chaiyen said: <em>"It seems as though most white people who leave their own countries immediately take leave off their sense or maybe it is something they never have in the first place and to see them barking out loud is simply laughable. read your history book again and remember that it was only a few decades ago that African Americans couldn't even sit on the same bus with white people and people get routinely lynched in some States for just being black and being in the wrong place at the wrong time."</em> Chaiyen, I guarantee that no one in the US has forgotten their cultural history, or is unaware of the current state of things. However, as we used to say in high school, what has that got to do with the price of eggs in Egypt? Your comment has nothing at all to do with the blog, which is a short discussion of the term "hi-so" and its meaning as a concept and impact in Thai society. Oppression of blacks in America has zero relevancy to the discussion of the concept of hi-so (a uniquely Thai term) in Thailand. If it did have any relevancy, then it might have been to illustrate the point that in America, anyone, from any background and any circumstance, can aspire to greatness. With talent and some luck, they can achieve their aspirations, though it's a tougher fight when you're coming up from the bottom. This is a mindset that is not prevalent among most of Thai society's less advantaged. Just because people see things differently from you doesn't make them ignorant. Often, the contrary is true. It takes some intelligence to disagree thoughtfully, and it requires wisdom to change one's mind. Insults are the quickest refuge of the ignorant. Chaiyen said: “It seems as though most white people who leave their own countries immediately take leave off their sense or maybe it is something they never have in the first place and to see them barking out loud is simply laughable. read your history book again and remember that it was only a few decades ago that African Americans couldn’t even sit on the same bus with white people and people get routinely lynched in some States for just being black and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

Chaiyen, I guarantee that no one in the US has forgotten their cultural history, or is unaware of the current state of things.

However, as we used to say in high school, what has that got to do with the price of eggs in Egypt? Your comment has nothing at all to do with the blog, which is a short discussion of the term “hi-so” and its meaning as a concept and impact in Thai society.

Oppression of blacks in America has zero relevancy to the discussion of the concept of hi-so (a uniquely Thai term) in Thailand.

If it did have any relevancy, then it might have been to illustrate the point that in America, anyone, from any background and any circumstance, can aspire to greatness. With talent and some luck, they can achieve their aspirations, though it’s a tougher fight when you’re coming up from the bottom. This is a mindset that is not prevalent among most of Thai society’s less advantaged.

Just because people see things differently from you doesn’t make them ignorant. Often, the contrary is true. It takes some intelligence to disagree thoughtfully, and it requires wisdom to change one’s mind. Insults are the quickest refuge of the ignorant.

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]]> By: Nok Opayop http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-112959 Nok Opayop Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:32:07 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-112959 Perhaps all the Isaan farm girls can become hi-so by visiting Sylvester McMonkey-McBean's Star-on Machine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories Perhaps all the Isaan farm girls can become hi-so by visiting Sylvester McMonkey-McBean’s Star-on Machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories

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]]> By: doctorbond http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57637 doctorbond Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:38:02 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57637 I'm not sure it is terribly classy to call someone a jerk. I prefer to think of a more modern definition of class - that a person behaves in a particular way that makes you admire them - whether they are 'classy' because they are astute or 'classy' because they are caring or 'classy' for some other reason. I know it is a western construct and has little relevance to this discussion, but using that definition makes the 'classy' classless I’m not sure it is terribly classy to call someone a jerk.
I prefer to think of a more modern definition of class – that a person behaves in a particular way that makes you admire them – whether they are ‘classy’ because they are astute or ‘classy’ because they are caring or ‘classy’ for some other reason.
I know it is a western construct and has little relevance to this discussion, but using that definition makes the ‘classy’ classless

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]]> By: Conspiracy Theorist http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57581 Conspiracy Theorist Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:21:35 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57581 thongsuk, that sounds like Dicer to me. Talking of "taboo subjects written out of, marginalized, relegated to myth status" this ...> "Baan Sao Nak 19 Dec 2006 by CharlieH Baan Sao Nak , a Lanna-style wooden house. Called the "House of Many Pillars", this traditional Northern Thai teakwood mansion is filled with Thai and Burmese antiques and handicrafts. But those who come here on their western package ... Secret Thailand - http://thailandsdirtysecret.blogspot.com/index.html A Thai Secret 18 Dec 2006 by CharlieH Very recently I was let in on a little secret about Thailand; a dirty secret it does not want the outside world to know about. Should it ever become common knowledge on a global scene a national loss of face would have to be endured for ... Thailand's dirty secret - http://thailandsdirtysecret.blogspot.com/index.htmlBaan" ... thongsuk, that sounds like Dicer to me. Talking of “taboo subjects written out of, marginalized, relegated to myth status” this …>

“Baan Sao Nak
19 Dec 2006 by CharlieH
Baan Sao Nak , a Lanna-style wooden house. Called the “House of Many Pillars”,
this traditional Northern Thai teakwood mansion is filled with Thai and Burmese
antiques and handicrafts. But those who come here on their western package …
Secret Thailand – http://thailandsdirtysecret.blogspot.com/index.html

A Thai Secret
18 Dec 2006 by CharlieH
Very recently I was let in on a little secret about Thailand; a dirty secret
it does not want the outside world to know about. Should it ever become common
knowledge on a global scene a national loss of face would have to be endured for …
Thailand’s dirty secret – http://thailandsdirtysecret.blogspot.com/index.htmlBaan”

…

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]]> By: thongsuk http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57548 thongsuk Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:22:00 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57548 former history = taboo subjects Subject written out of, marginalized, relegated to myth status, smeared by practitioners of neuro-linguistic conditioning and the manipulation of their contemporary semiotics. Ja like that, I just made it up :-) (stuff like, oh, I dunno, USA's 1963 coup, the Nixon Coup of '73, and the 50 years of murderous US state terrorism . . shit like that :-) only using the THAI story boards. Former history. former history = taboo subjects
Subject written out of, marginalized, relegated to myth status, smeared by practitioners of neuro-linguistic conditioning and the manipulation of their contemporary semiotics. Ja like that, I just made it up :-)

(stuff like, oh, I dunno, USA’s 1963 coup, the Nixon Coup of ‘73, and the 50 years of murderous US state terrorism . . shit like that :-) only using the THAI story boards.
Former history.

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]]> By: werewolf http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57530 werewolf Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:02:34 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-57530 @@ Thongsuk: "...out of ignorance of our former history." TS, sorry it took me so long to pick up on something so glaring, but what exactly is 'former history'? :D :D @@ Thongsuk: “…out of ignorance of our former history.”

TS, sorry it took me so long to pick up on something so glaring, but what exactly is ‘former history’? :D :D

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]]> By: Pants Elk http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-56167 Pants Elk Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:45:50 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-56167 I've had both the Emporium shopping/cinema experiences you recount, Werewolf, ending up at MBK and JJ, more often than not with a sister or two in tow. It's always interesting to see if they really want to milk your wallet or not - I can remember more instances of insisting I buy something for them than being asked to buy - this may be just expertise, but it's charming expertise. I'm happy to play my part, and it uses up the money I saved when they refused a restaurant meal, preferring their "nuden" from a tin table in the street. The farang can mix in Hi-So and Lo-So with a flexibility denied to the class-bound Thai, but only if he's presentable; a face full of studs, visible tatts, and Pattaya beach clothes aren't exactly the passport to Hi-So acceptance. I know a true Thai princess (I suspect there are a lot of these ...) and her CEO husband, but I'm always looking forward to escaping the dinner party to the Nana carpark at two am. I’ve had both the Emporium shopping/cinema experiences you recount, Werewolf, ending up at MBK and JJ, more often than not with a sister or two in tow. It’s always interesting to see if they really want to milk your wallet or not – I can remember more instances of insisting I buy something for them than being asked to buy – this may be just expertise, but it’s charming expertise. I’m happy to play my part, and it uses up the money I saved when they refused a restaurant meal, preferring their “nuden” from a tin table in the street.

The farang can mix in Hi-So and Lo-So with a flexibility denied to the class-bound Thai, but only if he’s presentable; a face full of studs, visible tatts, and Pattaya beach clothes aren’t exactly the passport to Hi-So acceptance. I know a true Thai princess (I suspect there are a lot of these …) and her CEO husband, but I’m always looking forward to escaping the dinner party to the Nana carpark at two am.

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]]> By: thongsuk http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-56056 thongsuk Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:28:24 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-56056 Khun Chaiyen (krup) It should be also evident to you that there are many on these boards who have read their history books. Some of these books and you know which ones they are, are for reasons of translation and content unavailable here. Many of us have read them all. We know all too well the real reasons for some of the class distinctions to be found here and the motivation for clinging desparately to them. As an educated Thai person you do yourself a great disservice in resorting to the tired and worn accusation that were make the remarks we do out of ignorance of our former history. But once again, in the true form and reaching the true limits of Thai intellectual inquiry you have achieved your goal: You find a way to lay blame on those who are not Thai. Since real inquiry is as forbidden here as it is currently in the United States, that's as far as this Hi-so Lo-so thing ever gets. Khun Chaiyen (krup) It should be also evident to you that there are many on these boards who have read their history books. Some of these books and you know which ones they are, are for reasons of translation and content unavailable here.

Many of us have read them all. We know all too well the real reasons for some of the class distinctions to be found here and the motivation for clinging desparately to them.

As an educated Thai person you do yourself a great disservice in resorting to the tired and worn accusation that were make the remarks we do out of ignorance of our former history.

But once again, in the true form and reaching the true limits of Thai intellectual inquiry you have achieved your goal: You find a way to lay blame on those who are not Thai.

Since real inquiry is as forbidden here as it is currently in the United States, that’s as far as this Hi-so Lo-so thing ever gets.

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]]> By: Chaiyen http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-56046 Chaiyen Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:33:19 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-56046 I can't believe that in the entire post and all comments, I have to reach the last one posted by Some Young Guy to see some plain old common sense and unbiased educated explanation.It seems as though most white people who leave their own countries immediately take leave off their sense or maybe it is something they never have in the first place and to see them barking out loud is simply laughable. read your history book again and remember that it was only a few decades ago that African Americans couldn't even sit on the same bus with white people and people get routinely lynched in some States for just being black and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can’t believe that in the entire post and all comments, I have to reach the last one posted by Some Young Guy to see some plain old common sense and unbiased educated explanation.It seems as though most white people who leave their own countries immediately take leave off their sense or maybe it is something they never have in the first place and to see them barking out loud is simply laughable. read your history book again and remember that it was only a few decades ago that African Americans couldn’t even sit on the same bus with white people and people get routinely lynched in some States for just being black and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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]]> By: Some Young Guy http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-36853 Some Young Guy Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:17:45 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/11/02/hi-so-lo-so-by-werewolf/#comment-36853 "Thai's might be "hi-so" in their opinion but i have yet to meet a Thai with "class"" - MSB Well said MSB; You are obviously hi-so and your statement exudes class and dignity beyond words. I think it's rather simple to understand. There are varying levels of income and status in all societies. In the US, there are varying levels and status of shopping centers or department stores. Barneys, SAKS and Nieman Marcus are on the higher end and probably equivalent to Emporium. Sears and JC Penny's are more like Central. And then you have K Mart and Walmart, which are similiar to MBK. Most Europeans and North Americans come from countries which have a substantially higher standard (and cost) of living than most any South East Asian country. When we visit Thailand, the currency exchange rate is most likely favorable to us. Not only is the exchange rate favorable, but the cost of living is most likely relatively lower. That effectively puts us in a position to be able to afford the "hi-so" lifestyle and luxuries. If you visit a Barney's or a Bloomingdales, you will most likely encounter some stuck up wealthy upper class people just like if you were to shop at Emporium. If you can't put 2 and 2 together, then perhaps you have let the favorable exchange rate and lower cost of living get to your head. Onto the issue of darker skin and lighter skin... Living in Chicago, one of the most diverse cities in the world, I clearly see a pattern of racism in both the work place and outside the work place. It exists all over the world. It even exists in Thailand and MSB is a great example of it. “Thai’s might be “hi-so” in their opinion but i have yet to meet a Thai with “class”" – MSB

Well said MSB; You are obviously hi-so and your statement exudes class and dignity beyond words.

I think it’s rather simple to understand. There are varying levels of income and status in all societies. In the US, there are varying levels and status of shopping centers or department stores. Barneys, SAKS and Nieman Marcus are on the higher end and probably equivalent to Emporium. Sears and JC Penny’s are more like Central. And then you have K Mart and Walmart, which are similiar to MBK.

Most Europeans and North Americans come from countries which have a substantially higher standard (and cost) of living than most any South East Asian country. When we visit Thailand, the currency exchange rate is most likely favorable to us. Not only is the exchange rate favorable, but the cost of living is most likely relatively lower. That effectively puts us in a position to be able to afford the “hi-so” lifestyle and luxuries.

If you visit a Barney’s or a Bloomingdales, you will most likely encounter some stuck up wealthy upper class people just like if you were to shop at Emporium. If you can’t put 2 and 2 together, then perhaps you have let the favorable exchange rate and lower cost of living get to your head.

Onto the issue of darker skin and lighter skin… Living in Chicago, one of the most diverse cities in the world, I clearly see a pattern of racism in both the work place and outside the work place. It exists all over the world. It even exists in Thailand and MSB is a great example of it.

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