Working for a Living by Werewolf
Posted by werewolf | Blog, Reader Submissions | Posted on October 24th, 2007
I often read comments on internet blog sites that refer to the Westerners living in Thailand as a group of moral degenerates.
I guess that reading the available websites about Thailand might make life in Bangkok sound very much like one long drunken party, and that’s unfortunate, because life in Bangkok certainly isn’t all whoring and drunkenness. To survive in Bangkok , like anywhere else, it’s necessary to work and you can’t survive in many jobs if you are constantly high or hung over.
The problem is, writing online about work just doesn’t make sense unless the work itself is inherently interesting. I know mine isn’t… in fact my work is quite boring. I am self employed, and spend my day working alone, except when I take on a training contract here in Thailand . You can imagine the fascinating diary entries: ‒Spent five hours at the computer this morning, and expect to do some research again tomorrow.”
So the nature of websites like this one is that they focus on things that should be interesting to others: places to go, things to do, stories about Thai girls and a facets of dealing Thai culture and laws.
Last night I went to the Pent club with another Ferang and we spent a few minutes on the topic of guys who fall apart in Thailand – the ones who don’t make it. We agreed that these guys always seem to fall to drugs or alcohol. They forget or ignore the fact that they have to work, and they slide into a morass of self-indulgence. For most of these guys, Thai girls aren’t really part of the problem. As the drugs or alcohol take over their lives, these guys actually seem to lose most interest in sex, and spend most of their effort simply getting high or drunk.
We both felt that anyone who manages to maintain his focus on work while he’s here is leading a fairly stable life (even bar owners who have a propensity to enjoy threesomes). Contrary to the commonly held perceptions, most Westerners who live here are not whiskey-soaked losers and degenerates. For the most part they are sober, hard working people who live in a city that offers a unique night life, and where the culture makes it easy to hook up with beautiful young girls.
It’s this ‒country of whores” perception, I think, that causes others to perceive Bangkok ex-pats in general as moral degenerates.
But of course, Thailand isn’t a country of whores. It’s a Bhuddist country where modesty is valued. The vast majority of women here are shy and kind-hearted. There have been millions of words written to try to describe the how and why of Thai prostitution, so I won’t try to dissect it in this paragraph, but I will say that I don’t believe the ‘pay for play’ scene here is inherently destructive to the men. In addition, because of the underlying cultural beliefs of Thai people, I think the damage done to the women who work in this trade is much less than in other countries and cultures where it carries a greater social stigma and where it more often goes hand in hand with violence and drug use.
Here, they aren’t always stigmatized as prostitutes; they are often seen simply as ‘bar girls’ earning a living the best way they can. And, of course, a lot of the sex that goes on between Westerners and Thai women is of the ‘normal’ variety that isn’t based on a direct trade of cash for sex, but involves good old fashioned lust.
But whether the relationship starts as a financial transaction, a lustful encounter or in more innocent loving way it is amazing how many Westerners eventually marry one of these girls. Thai women are great wives because they are deeply caring and devoted. And marrying a Westerner is attractive to Thai women specifically because we are stable, hard-working and dependable.
Anyone who thinks that life in Bangkok is one big drunken party has only ever been here on holiday. You can come here for a week or a month and live that way; but you can’t do it for years on end and survive. Even party animals like Smitty and pmmp are surprisingly responsible businessmen who have to be highly responsible.
So, people who are perusing the internet and reading blogs that seem to describe a life filled only with drinking and having sex with young, beautiful girls should remember that these are the interesting leisure time activities. Underlying all of that is the need to work and make a living.
I know guys here who work as teachers, writers, architects, builders, factory owners, consultants, bar-owners, salesmen and travel agents. Some of them have Thai wives or girlfriends, and some are single. They all enjoy the vibrant, exciting city of Bangkok and its night life, but every one of them also shows up to work every day ready for action. Underlying all the enjoyment to be had in the City of Heavenly Beings is the very real requirement to work.
You don’t find too many internet sites writing about it because… well, let’s face it… it’s boring. But it’s real.
23 Responses to “Working for a Living by Werewolf”
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Recent Comments
Translator
Very well said! I have seen quite a few people come and go over the years, and the irresponsible drunks never last long here.
The people I know who’s life is one long alcohol binge tend to live in some crappy 3000bht/month apartment, always seem to get injured by falling or getting beat up, have such low self esteem that they never pickup girls and don’t have enough money to pay for a bar girl. There are even those that just want to go home but can’t afford the overstay fine.
I think it takes a disciplined person to live in Bangkok and enjoy the nightlife at night but put work first and be sober and work hard when it is needed. The people that I know who earn a good living in Bangkok and are here long term are all very solid and responsible people.
View all comments by Orion
Yes, let’s all reach around and pat ourselves on the back.
Now how about the new number 001 at Rainbow ?!
View all comments by Jack Dawson
Quote
Moral degenerates.
One long drunken party,
All whoring and drunkenness
Whiskey-soaked losers and degenerates.
A morass of self-indulgence.
Anyone who thinks that life in Bangkok is one big drunken party has only ever been here on holiday.
(Myself for eighteen years)
So, people who are perusing the internet and reading blogs that seem to describe a life filled only with drinking and having sex with young, beautiful girls should remember that these are the interesting leisure time activities.
End Quote
The Thai Tourist Authority should use this as their next campaign.
I didn’t understand the weird part about W*rking (I don’t use swear words)
View all comments by atmcharlie
I take your point about there being plenty of decent hard working and competent expats in Thailand, but I do disagree to some degree.
IMHO, just as expats in general tend to be harder drinking and more happily degenerate than folks back in their home countries, so Thailand expats tend to be a slightly more hardcore subset of these people. If you go a stage further then the Pattaya crowd are another level again. And, yes, more self indulgent, whether or not they have yet drowned in a morass.
Of course you cannot tar everyone with the same brush, but there are definitely themes.
View all comments by Combover
co – to some extent I just think it is because it is cheaper here – same across all of SE asia. trying to be a drunk without a job in hk. u would starve or freeze to death come winter. so in my mind SE asia is the magnet for this type of activity due to cost and ease of immigration.
I always use the term falling off of the rails. Meaning when u just lost it and no longer are a productive member of society and need some sort of intervention or to get a life.
They way I see it is people can fall of the rails fairly easily anywhere but in Thailand it usually is enduced 1 of 4 ways.
1. booze
2. drugs
3. girls
4. not working at all
the top three are basically addictions. I think some people can handle the easy women but others the easy women can be the primary reason for falling off of the rails.
The thing with not working is I think u lose some sense of purpose – some ability to create and produce something. Sure u might have some coin and don’t need to work – awesome. Then go to school, volunteer or do something but the idea of doing nothing all day and partying all night can’t last forever.
View all comments by smitty
According to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs it should be much easier to fulfill a happy existence in Thailand, unfortunately if you have a destructive/addictive/compulsive personality the country can just as easily bring the worst as well as the best out of a person.
I’ve lived in various places around the world such as Spain and Miami in the past and ended up partying pretty hard because of the type of work I was doing (DJ) and I have often wondered if I could make the permanent change to move to LOS and ‘get a sensible job’ to survive (as my mother always liked to phrase it during every nagging session).
View all comments by Cookoo
ck – yup.
that was bantered about here:
http://www.bigmangobar.com/?p=390
View all comments by smitty
@smitt, ty i haven’t had a chance to look through the archives but i’ll give that a read over my coffee
View all comments by Cookoo
@Cookoo: I did know a DJ a while back in Bangkok, who claimed that all he did was smoke weed and fcuk beautiful women. Pretty much along the lines of erstwhile Bangkok blogger Morally Diminished.
http://morallydiminished.blogspot.com/
I did feel rather envious at the time, but I’ve come to realise I’d be bored shitless; plus I’m sufficiently rudderless even with a demanding full time job and multiple financial commitments to even contemplate doing something where I’d be left to manage my own time.
No idea what happened to the DJ, Perhaps he’s clutching his fifth Chang of the day, and chatting away with Belgian Hell’s Angels in Pattaya Third Street even as we speak…
View all comments by Combover
I play poker for a living.
Long drunken party indeed, smart people shouldn’t have to work unless they choose to.
cheers
View all comments by RRR
“Thai women are great wives because they are deeply caring and devoted. And marrying a Westerner is attractive to Thai women specifically because we are stable, hard-working and dependable”
COULDN’T BE MORE RIGHT ABOUT THAT.
100% CORRECT
View all comments by Weston FL
@ Combover: Well, two DJ’s whose boasting I frequently had to sit through (one guy’s hobby was beer pretties the other’s was powders) got done for document fraud in one of our many Western Airports.
10K US + +. (Huh?) For a reduced sentence the cooler one of the two ended up ratting out his goofier buddy.
View all comments by Thongsuk
The above reminds me of a buddy of mine who got transferred to a money job in Las Vegas.
I went to see him not too long ago and was taken by his statement, “If I lived here like I used to visit here, I’d be fired and broke in six months.”
View all comments by The Asian Badger
@RRR: I reckon you’ve still got a job. You have to show up and ply your trade or starve. I imagine that any professional poker player who was truly a drunk would find it difficult to excercise the skills and judgement necessary to earn his living.
The only people who don’t have to work are those who inherit enough money or who are taken care of by someone else.
Even professional investors (think Warren Buffet) are still working, even if all they do is manage their portfolio.
I think one of the scariest ideas in the world is living in Bangkok (Manila, wherever) with unlimited funds and no need to work. I’ve seen a few friends here in Bangkok who inherited money when grandma finally fell off the perch, and generally the sudden ‘wealth’ has allowed them to do what they want. A couple have invested the money, maintained their job here in Bangkok, and simply improved thier standard of living. A couple of others have quit their jobs and devoted themselves to heodonism. One of my good friends who chose this route called me less than 90 days after he received his inheritance. He was in the hospital recovering from alcohol poisoning, and had suffered several days of hallucinations, shakes and the rest. Unlimited funds + Bangkok had nearly killed him. He fell of the rails really quikly.
Personally, I have never met a Westerner who lives in Bangkok who doesn’t work (though I acknowledge that many of them exist). I believe the NORM is to have a job of some sort.
I think the guys who own and operate Big Mango are good examples of what life in Thailand can offer. No one who reads the blog can deny that they participate in the Bangkok nightlife scene to it’s fullest.
But they are entrepreneurs who own and operate two bars and manage this highly successful website, and one of them pursues his interest in professional writing. I’m sure they have other significant interests as well. Arguably, like you as a professional poker player, work doesn’t feel like work for them; hang out in the bar, write blogs on line… it’s a pretty good life.
But I know that they both take their responsibilities seriously. I was out with pmmp one night; we started a bar crawl at about 6 pm. He had to go back to Big Mango to handle some work issues from 7:30 to 9:30, and returned to the crawl around 10 pm. I have a vague memory of saying goodnight to him after the lights came on at closing time in Suzie Wong’s.
I called smitty recently to invite him to join me for some drinks and he apologized, saying he had to attend to business early the next morning. No matter how hard these guys party, they still keep thier eye on the ball when it comes to business.
I certainly don’t think that work and party are mutually exclusive — I just think that sometimes people who only see Thailand on holiday, or perhaps have never been here and simply read about it on the internet, don’t recognize that most ex-pats spend a huge part of their life her attending to job or career.
@Combover: re your first comment, I agree that there is a difference in the balance of life between the typical ex-pat in Bangkok, and say a fellow who lives in the town in England or America where he was born.
I have often expressed my own viewpoint (and heard the same propounded by other people) that ANYONE who migrates is automatically self-selected as being a more highly motivated risk-taker than the general population.
Taking that a step further, men who choose to migrate to Bangkok are generally choosing a lifestyle that will mean that they consume more recreational stimulants/depressants, and engage in more frequent casual sex than the general population.
Of course these are broad generalizations. As they say in the infomercials, individual results may vary.
But my view is that the typical Bangkok based expat grinds out his 30 or 50 hours per week in some sort of commercial enterprise, banks his pay, consumes large quantities of alcohol, spends a significant amount of time in a variety of entertainment venues and enjoys the company of a parade of young and attractive sexual partners. Well, I do anyway!
View all comments by werewolf
I think you have to be careful if you holiday here to much. I spend 6 months a year in Thailand and have to admit I almost fell off the rails on a couple of the points. It helps having good friends who can keep you in check…..reality even. I normally spend 3 months at work or in Thailand but last time I was there for 5 and half months. It’s way too long to holiday. I made myself ill halfway through and i’m going to have to be a lot more sensible next time. I have always thought of it as a safety catch having to leave after 3 months. I spoke with Smitty about this before and he’s right you can’t fire on all cylinders everyday, even though it was a lot of fun trying. I know that I have the “get out of jail free card” and let myself slip too far because of it.
View all comments by Young Royal
@Werewolf
I luckily or rather unlucky found myself in the same bracket as the few that came into serious wealth, when my dad died and i inherited enough cash on my 22nd birthday that i didnt have to do a single days work for the rest of my life in UK (let alone thailand). I found out about my new found wealth 3months before i had already planned on upping sticks and moving to wherever took my fancy in Asia.
I worked in for Celeb Fitness in Penang as a personal trainer for my first few months but as i had a steady job i was passionate about and a focus. I didnt really spend a penny as i was too busy working. Then fatefully i booked a week of for some R&R in BKK. That 7 day break turned into 6 months of none stop drinking, whoring and spending in serious exess. Im talking 10,000baht a day on a normal day for months on end
I even set up my own business as a half arsed attempt to keep me busy and on the ‘straight and narrow’, but after 1 month i wrote it off as i was too busy whoring and drinking and my attitude was ‘fuck it i can afford to, whats XXX baht anyway im loaded’
I found myself at 23years old getting to bed at 4am every night and waking up at 8am with liver n kidney pains and cold sweats, and the only thing id do to block it out was start drinking first thing. Finding yourself reaching for a beer from your fridge at 8am in the morning everyday is a pretty grim place
A misplaced text meant for a friend confessing how much id been spending/whoring and how deep i was in with my drinking, found its way to my mom. I say ‘thankfully’ now but she thankfully stopped and froze my trust money coming through which has forced me back to UK to straighten out. If i hadnt of sent that text to the wrong place i dread to think how things would be now.
Im coming back to LOS at Xmas for good, and because i left school @ 16 to pursue a ill fated football career plagued by injury and personal problems, i have 0 qualifications that will get me anywhere job-wise in Thailand, so going to try and crack pro football in Asia or if that fails resort to teaching…… oh joy
its all good clean fun i guess
View all comments by myspace.com/penfold_xxx
“But they are entrepreneurs who own and operate two bars and manage this highly successful website….”
err… make that ONE bar.
View all comments by werewolf
@young royal
@penfold
Having recently visited BKK on the corporate ie. 5* hotels, as much money to spend as I can fake receipts for…I had a tiny glipmse of how one can lose focus and go ‘off the rails’ in this wonderful city.
Did manage to get my conference by 11am and was able to rush back at lunchtime for TG afternoon delight session and even make it back for the afternoon networking session as well, but…my head was in a spin and all I could think about was the coming evening sesh: the bars and clubs to go to, and which girls to go with etc.
Scheduling a massage and a 2 hr kip between kissing arse and blagging and being arse kissed and shagging – became a daily necessity.
What a rush!
Can anyone blame you for ‘making hay while sun shines?’
Surely people can and do ‘fall/come off the wagon/rails anywhere else due to less glamorous circumstances and reasons.
But what is it about Thailand and SE Asia in general that makes that downside more spectacular than it seems?
Is it –
a) Bottle of Johnny Red in LOS THB 1,000?
b) 4 cans of Superbrew £4.50?
You drink one in the club surrounded by gorgeous TG’s.
You drink the other on a gutter surrunded by other tramps trying to steal the other 3 cans of brew.
View all comments by kalonman
“Personally, I have never met a Westerner who lives in Bangkok who doesn’t work.”
You need to get out more often.
View all comments by Jack Dawson
I think I need a hobby in BKK. Thats what I’m looking at now.
View all comments by Young Royal
Some of the same ideas are discussed in:
http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/10/05/in-defense-of-thai-women-part-1-by-bigbabykenny/
I agree with Werewolf that farangs and TG’s get unfairly characterized on the internet and in the politically correct press.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Did/Do you guys have to pay a monthly bribe to Thai police because of the success of the Duke and the (past and future) success of the Big Mango? I spend anywhere from 3-6 months a year in Thailand (mostly Phuket) and thought of starting a business that would keep me there most of the year, but I’m always afraid that if it were successful, the boys in brown would be coming by in short order to harass me for a weekly/monthly piece of the pie. I figure they do this to all successful farang owned businesses because they can easily get away with it. I have farang bar owner friends in Phuket and I’d ask them, but I’m not sure they’d be telling me the truth. I’d be interested in Team Mango’s thoughts on this.
View all comments by cranialgalactic
c – it really is not a bribe. It is just a part of the monthly expenses. I won’t get into details here but generally u setup before hand what u will be paying. As long as u are truly licenses, legal and paying taxes – it is hard for them to extact too much unless you are doing something not normal. Nudity, on site action and so on. In some cases you hear of places getting more attention as they get busier but providing you have your ducks organized you can defend against it pretty well. So in short – I don’t think police are the issue for the most part.
View all comments by smitty