Comments on: Loyalty to whom? by Arthur http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/ drink and blog Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:27:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Linepigen http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-130314 Linepigen Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:15:22 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-130314 Oh, come on. If the guy's stupid enough to send money to this girl he's only getting what he's asking for! Only date a "bar"girl if you're prepared to deal with the stuff that comes along with it. Otherwise, go snoop around in a university library! ;) Oh, come on. If the guy’s stupid enough to send money to this girl he’s only getting what he’s asking for!

Only date a “bar”girl if you’re prepared to deal with the stuff that comes along with it.

Otherwise, go snoop around in a university library! ;)

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]]> By: Rusto1 http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-36943 Rusto1 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:04:45 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-36943 All the punter has 2 do if he is suspicious, is 2 arrive unannounced & see for himself - lesson learn't ( the hard way!!) All the punter has 2 do if he is suspicious, is 2 arrive unannounced & see for himself – lesson learn’t ( the hard way!!)

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]]> By: Bill http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-25204 Bill Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:07:25 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-25204 Come on! Let's get real here what sort of an idiot trusts a bar girl not to get right back to working the bar the minute he is out of the country! The Bar owner has got nothing to do with the situation and can and should employ who he wishes, I think this is very much a case of a Bangkok naive newbie who hopefully now has been educated. Come on! Let’s get real here what sort of an idiot trusts a bar girl not to get right back to working the bar the minute he is out of the country!
The Bar owner has got nothing to do with the situation and can and should employ who he wishes, I think this is very much a case of a Bangkok naive newbie who hopefully now has been educated.

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]]> By: Aussie Dave http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12319 Aussie Dave Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:22:02 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12319 Stick to your principles pmmp. Your business should be your priority but I like the fact that you won't lie if asked. Any punter that pays a girl to stay out of the bar should know that there's a fair chance that's not going to happen, if they can't accept that then they should get out of the relationship. Thanks for the tour last week, always happy to help out with your 'research'. I don't know when we will be back but you can be sure we'll be back at the Big Mango. Stick to your principles pmmp. Your business should be your priority but I like the fact that you won’t lie if asked. Any punter that pays a girl to stay out of the bar should know that there’s a fair chance that’s not going to happen, if they can’t accept that then they should get out of the relationship.

Thanks for the tour last week, always happy to help out with your ‘research’. I don’t know when we will be back but you can be sure we’ll be back at the Big Mango.

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]]> By: Arthur http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12293 Arthur Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:06:35 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12293 Great discussion - although the philosophy made my brain hurt. Perhaps farang and Thai cultures recognize and reward supererogatory actions differently? That could be a reason behind so many of our Farang/Thai communication problems. That is an interesting combination of philosophy and anthropology. I see a Ph.D. thesis here. Regarding the original conflict: I understand the farang in question was of the opinion that since the bar owner was a fellow farang he should have supported him. "Farangs should stick together". Whereas the bar owner saw himself as a first as a business owner in Thailand. It was more important to him to keep good relations with the girls who enable him to make a living. Hence the conflict. If I was the bar owner I think the most sensible course is to keep my big mouth shut in all cases without exception. As pmmp hinted, making exceptions for "friends" (I'd tell Paul that I saw his girlfriend working in a bar becacuse he's a good customer / friend./ But I won't tell Peter because he's only been in here once ...) is a risky course. In times past in analogous situations (although I am not a bar owner I've been in the middle similar situations) I have tried to be the good guy and ended up being blamed by both sides. Lose-lose for Khun Arthur. One side note: in Bangkok there is the common practice of "buying a girl out of the bar" commonly for 10,000B. According to my Pattaya friend there's no such convention in Pattaya. He sees losing girls to be girlfriends of customers as a cost of doing business. For his particular bar it has acquired a reputation as a place where girls meet men for long term relationships / marriage. Hence he gets more "long ball" girls applying for a job and more customers seeking same. That's his market positioning so he is content with the situation. Great discussion – although the philosophy made my brain hurt. Perhaps farang and Thai cultures recognize and reward supererogatory actions differently? That could be a reason behind so many of our Farang/Thai communication problems. That is an interesting combination of philosophy and anthropology. I see a Ph.D. thesis here.

Regarding the original conflict: I understand the farang in question was of the opinion that since the bar owner was a fellow farang he should have supported him. “Farangs should stick together”.

Whereas the bar owner saw himself as a first as a business owner in Thailand. It was more important to him to keep good relations with the girls who enable him to make a living. Hence the conflict.

If I was the bar owner I think the most sensible course is to keep my big mouth shut in all cases without exception. As pmmp hinted, making exceptions for “friends” (I’d tell Paul that I saw his girlfriend working in a bar becacuse he’s a good customer / friend./ But I won’t tell Peter because he’s only been in here once …) is a risky course.

In times past in analogous situations (although I am not a bar owner I’ve been in the middle similar situations) I have tried to be the good guy and ended up being blamed by both sides. Lose-lose for Khun Arthur.

One side note: in Bangkok there is the common practice of “buying a girl out of the bar” commonly for 10,000B. According to my Pattaya friend there’s no such convention in Pattaya. He sees losing girls to be girlfriends of customers as a cost of doing business. For his particular bar it has acquired a reputation as a place where girls meet men for long term relationships / marriage. Hence he gets more “long ball” girls applying for a job and more customers seeking same. That’s his market positioning so he is content with the situation.

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]]> By: pmmp http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12287 pmmp Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:00:55 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12287 I would need more facts than what have been given before making a decision but overall I won't lie to a BG or a Customer, but I also won't go out of my way to squeal on them UNLESS they are friends. Sometimes for me though it gets gray on when BG and Customers become friends and that's when it gets tricky. In the case above if I knew the BG was getting paid to not work at the Bar by a Customer, I would advise her strongly against working in the bar and tell her that if he asks me I will tell him she is working in the bar, because I won't lie. I have done this once already and the girl decided against working in the bar. I have been asked to spy and lie by both BGs and Customers and I always refuse. I always take the "it's between you guys" line and I talk about how important it is for me to be Discrete. I have reported to a Friend that I saw his girlfriend out with a guy and on another instance I didn't. It's not always black and white so you just have to go with your gut sometimes. I would need more facts than what have been given before making a decision but overall I won’t lie to a BG or a Customer, but I also won’t go out of my way to squeal on them UNLESS they are friends. Sometimes for me though it gets gray on when BG and Customers become friends and that’s when it gets tricky.

In the case above if I knew the BG was getting paid to not work at the Bar by a Customer, I would advise her strongly against working in the bar and tell her that if he asks me I will tell him she is working in the bar, because I won’t lie. I have done this once already and the girl decided against working in the bar.

I have been asked to spy and lie by both BGs and Customers and I always refuse. I always take the “it’s between you guys” line and I talk about how important it is for me to be Discrete. I have reported to a Friend that I saw his girlfriend out with a guy and on another instance I didn’t. It’s not always black and white so you just have to go with your gut sometimes.

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]]> By: nampla http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12246 nampla Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:20:57 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12246 Forget Kant remember ancient Rome and Zero Mostel: "caveat emptor" .... enough already lets get on with the show ..... Forget Kant remember ancient Rome and Zero Mostel:
“caveat emptor” …. enough already lets get on with the show …..

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]]> By: Rob http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12212 Rob Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:24:54 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12212 Easy question: Was the girl doing her job at the bar? If the answer is yes, then the bar owner should have nothing to say about the whole situation. More than that: The girl is working even though she really doesn't have to....great work ethic - she should get a promotion :) Easy question: Was the girl doing her job at the bar? If the answer is yes, then the bar owner should have nothing to say about the whole situation.

More than that: The girl is working even though she really doesn’t have to….great work ethic – she should get a promotion :)

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]]> By: smitty http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12210 smitty Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:21:15 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12210 I am not sure in this case how the girl has to be dealt with by the bar for the situation with the customer. As I have stated before - how would the bar even know this was happening. My guess is the girl was coming to work as normal and the guy was sending her money without any knowledge if the bar owner. Remember in most cases the bar stays out of this for a reason. So the guy comes back - finds out the girl was working and then gets mad at the bar owners? Not sure it all computes for me. I am not sure in this case how the girl has to be dealt with by the bar for the situation with the customer. As I have stated before – how would the bar even know this was happening. My guess is the girl was coming to work as normal and the guy was sending her money without any knowledge if the bar owner. Remember in most cases the bar stays out of this for a reason. So the guy comes back – finds out the girl was working and then gets mad at the bar owners? Not sure it all computes for me.

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]]> By: Khun J http://www.bigmangobar.com/blog/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12207 Khun J Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:41:34 +0000 http://www.bigmangobar.com/reader-submissions/2007/07/21/loyalty-to-whom-by-arthur/#comment-12207 U huh. U huh.

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