So u wanna live in Thailand? by A guy who did (live in Bangkok)
Posted by John Obama | Blog, Newbies, Reader Submissions | Posted on April 29th, 2007
Great subject. I’ve heard an awful lot of guys (and never one woman) say they would love to/kill to/sell all their possessions to live in Thailand. By which they almost always mean one of the four areas my Thai teacher told me are ‒no longer Thailand”: Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui.
My teacher was recommended by a friend who I met when I first visited Thailand in 1989. He reached a level of Thai fluency where he was translating documents for a high-level Bangkok firm-he was the only farang employee. The teacher was a middle-aged woman I have deep respect for: she was part Mon (hilltribe) and used to teach in the Thai school system-still had ties with a school in Mae Hong Son, up north. If any of her students gave her attitude she had a simple suggestion: come with me up to MHS, you can sleep on the bare floor for a few nights and help me with my work. See how you feel after that. She claimed she cured one student’s back problems this way (she also taught the UK ambassador in the 80s and when his Thai writing was ‒mai suai” (not beautiful) she whacked him on the wrist with a ruler, the woman has NO FEAR).
But you don’t care about all that. As my friend used to say: ‒Yeah, I know about the PUSSY” cuz that’s the main focus for just about everyone who wants to live in Thailand (or the few urban centers they view as ‒Thailand”). Now, I have nothing against Thai pussy. Unless it’s my face. It is one of the great benefits of life in Bangkok, and as that’s where I lived for about a year, and that’s likely where yr planning on locating yr home/biz/dick then let’s talk about that, shall we?
Bangkok is the urban center not only of Thailand, but of about four countries in the region. It is vastly different from most places in the country, and while you might not care, you should understand that a lot of Bangkok residents come from parts of Thailand where Bangkok (also Pattaya, Patong Beach, Koh Samui) at first does not compute. Imagine you travel to a city in your own country where people three-meters-tall walk around, and these people will happily pay one hundred euros for a ham sandwich. Would you not move there and set up a sandwich shop? While this may not be a perfect analogy, it serves the purpose. OK, the 3-meterons are jerks. They scream and yell, get plastered on rubbing alcohol and fall down in the street. They call you names. They cause all kinds of problems. But at the end of the day you sold ten sandwiches and pocketed a thousand euros. Ergo, fuck ‘em.
And if you DO fuck them…well, imagine if they pay a thousand euros for that. And the 2.5-meterons from specific planets pay SIX thousand euros. Now whaddaya do?
I’m specifically NOT addressing crap like visas/work permits/finding an apartment because I want to take you by your ankles and turn you upside down and shake you until your pocket change and keys fall clanging to the sidewalk, while I yell ‒WHY do you want to live in Bangkok??” Well, as long as you’re upside-down and I have your attention, let’s look at some possible reasons.
You can get great street food for extremely low prices. The city’s exotic but with enough touch-points so you don’t feel completely alienated. There’s a farang community, and email helps you to keep in touch with folks ‒back home.” Competent medical and dental care is much cheaper than in Western countries. And you will never ever need to knock the icicles off your roof.
Long story short: I lived and worked in Hong Kong about 5 years, then someone I used to work with there who’d relocated to BKK offered me a gig there, with a Thai company. I spent a year in BKK waiting for said company to get their act together before another HK company offered me a job, I moved back to HK, where actual business is conducted in a competent fashion. And this is a strong point: if you expect to live and WORK in Thailand, work is rather different from the West (or Hong Kong/Singapore/Taiwan/Korea/Japan).
Fundamental competency in a Western-sense is a big problem for farang living in Bangkok, because it’s not to be expected. Sure you can get a great flat for relatively low rent, but learn what the term ‒fai dap” means. Be well aware that the security guards who salute you when you arrive with your evening’s date are not there to serve you, no matter how much you tip them. In Bangkok, Things Don’t Work and it is expected and understood that everyone knows they Don’t Work. Farangs who pound on tables, yell and turn red when Things Don’t Work cause loss of face for everyone and are a real pain in the ass (far better to smile no matter HOW much it hurts). People laugh and joke when things fuck up in Thailand, and they WILL fuck up. The most successful farang in Thai-life are those who can partition their brains (like a hard disk drive) and keep their core competencies intact, then shift to the ‒mai pen rai” operating-system when necessary.
But let’s get back to the PUSSY, because if it ain’t on your mind, you’re not reading this and I am wasting my time. Towards the end of my stay in BKK I had acquired three ‒girlfriends” who would come over on a rotating basis, plus freelancers (pinch-hitters) when I felt like it. THAT part of Bangkok works well, but I reiterate the advice several more experienced gentlemen told me early on: tell ‘em upfront: ‒I’m a butterfly.” Right at the beginning, let them know you’re gonna be banging other Thai girls because that is YOUR NATURE. This does not absolve you from certain other conventions (it’s best practice to avoid causing ANY Thai to lose face). If you’re banging bargirls, try not to take another girl from the same bar while yr main gal is still in their employ (freelancers aren’t as concerned, hell, they may well suggest they BRING their pals). But, if it is in your nature to be a butterfly, and you state this upfront (politely of course)-they can’t very well change your nature now can they? This will help deflect attempts towards guilt-trips, wee-hour drunken poundings on your door, demands to go home and meet the family in Nakhon Eastjesus, and a lot of the stuff that farangs seem to get into. It is NOT a Judeo-Christian environment you’re dealing with here. But don’t think that Thai women (who I adore for several highly different reasons) don’t know where your guilt-buttons are, or won’t push them to suit their purposes.
I could go on, but I suggest no one make the decision to ‒move to Thailand” lightly. I did move to Bangkok, and I thought I knew what I was doing after spending months traveling through all parts of the country and visiting at least 3-4 times a year during my years in Hong Kong (and the year I lived in Tokyo, but that’s another story). But I failed in my attempt to become a working Bangkok resident. I tried, I had a great time, I failed, I survived, I’m lucky.
I’m glad I lived there, and indeed, may do so again in the future. The number of farang living in Bangkok (and other cities) has increased steadily since I first visited and so has the number of tourists. I believe this exposure to increasing numbers of farang has helped spark much recent Thai nationalism, conflicting and bizarre laws against farang investment, farang residency visas, farang ownership of property. MacArthur famously described Japan as a ‒nation of twelve-year olds”-sometimes I think Thailand is a nation run by nine-year-olds.
Farang can and do move there and have a great, successful time. Other farang move there and fall into one or more yawning pitfalls: the ‒girlfriend” who WILL fuck you over royally, alcohol and/or drugs leading to misery/insanity/jail/hospital/accident/death (not necessarily in that order), or an increasing rage at the non-functioning areas of government and society that drive them over the edge. A good book to read is ‒Thailand: Culture Shock.” But, prepare for surprises.
Some pointers:
1) If you do move to BKK, have a backup plan. What happens if it doesn’t work out for whatever reason? I was lucky because my backup plan happened organically, but don’t count on luck. Give it a timeframe-say, a year. What happens after that? Have a plan.
2) Learn as much of the language as you can. If at ALL possible, go to a language school where they teach you proper, polite Thai. Of course you can learn bargirl-patois. And when you use it, every Thai will know this. Proper, polite Thai is a powerful weapon in Thailand: if you can address anyone, from a street tout to an immigration officer, correctly and politely, you give them face and gain advantage. If you bark at them using slang you learned from Noi at Pussy Galore, you give a different impression.
3) In dealing with officials, dress politely. I don’t care if it’s the hot season-look around the streets of Bangkok, how many THAI people do you see wearing shorts? It’s not proper to show your legs. Yet I’ve seen farang go into immigration offices (or, the mind boggles, Buddhist temples) wearing tank tops and shorts. If you’re at the beach on Samui, fine, but improper dress really annoys Thai people. Of course the neon-lit streets of Pattaya are a different story-how could they not be?
4) If you go into Thai life with the firm belief that the Western way of doing things is Always Right and the Thai way is often inferior, incompetent, and Just Plain Wrong, you will suffer. I’m not saying that this belief doesn’t have some truth to it. I’m saying that if you’re not willing to be flexible you will experience aggro that may not be necessary. Thais are flexible people, and I’m not just talking about Oi who you met at the Biergarten on Soi 7.
5) Remember that Thailand is a developing country which is fundamentally agricultural and ruled by a corrupt elite whose positions are dependent on a military elite. I’ve told people this for years, but somehow, after the coup last September, I’ve found more receptive ears. However, that coup was bloodless-in the coup of May 1992, the military gunned people down in the street. A horrified journalist at that time told the Bangkok Post: ‒I never thought I would see Thai people kill each other like that.” (background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_May_%281992%29)
Thais are generally gentle and sweet people, but when they snap…be aware that violence can and does happen in Bangkok, often in the wee hours when people are drunk and/or messed up on yaabaa. People go ballistic if a condom breaks, but those same people may well get batfaced and go stumbling down Sukhumvit straight towards a group of katoey-pickpockets, football-hooligans or Songkran revelers who’ve been pickling their livers since noon. Which is more dangerous? Accurate risk-assessment is a virtue in Thailand. And getting physically violent with a Thai (male or female) in public, is best avoided.
All this is just my unedited thoughts on a Sunday afternoon. But I have known people who’ve done very well in Thailand, others (like myself) whose business plans have not worked out and have relocated and are doing well, and some for whom moving to Thailand was a slow slide into impoverishment, misery, forced relocation, you name it. How far can you slide?
A couple of years ago, the US and UK embassies pooled their figures and found that a total of 600 of their combined nationals had been reported dead in Bangkok during a calendar year. They decided to liaise with the police, and compare figures.
The cops reckoned that over that same period of time, about a hundred farang deaths (of all nationalities) had been reported.
Mai pen rai.
24 Responses to “So u wanna live in Thailand? by A guy who did (live in Bangkok)”
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Recent Comments
Translator
Great Post, someone telling it like it is…
View all comments by Young Royal
Wow you kind of said it all. All I can really say is that to be able to live in THAI YOU MUST BECOME THAI.
View all comments by Chris Hamilton
Hi
I read with much attention your words which were written from your direct experience.
I have been to Thailand for 5 times and am planning to go there again next month too. I would like to marry a thai lady who can live with me in uk and why not one day move together back to Tailand.
The problem is that I am not sure which one to choose, as i have noticed many differences between white skin (often more intelligent, but after money) they know how to use the e-mail at least, and dark skins (often less intelligent, but with a great common sense).
It’s a big decision, and I wonder how can it work with a thai lady as a wife…
Sorry am just writing things fast, and perhaps am not expressing myself at my best, and you might be thingking that i am confised, i know , i know, but that’s the way i become in thailand.
What would be your advice ?
If i find a ady in the bar that i like, then it is difficult to propose to come to uk, as she works in the bar and she might keep in touch with other farangs secretely….
A young lady is not advisable as she goes to universiity and she just wants the money from farangs.. other ladies don’t know how to e-mail or anything about thechnology, and it is difficult to rely on them ..
i have a business and would love a lady for my life to help me and make a fortune together, but it is a bit diffcult…to propose someone love and business..
i have tried with other europeans and found out that these women complain all the time and are so boring ..
well got some other things to say but i hope to get an answer from yyou perhaps you can help
View all comments by jhanny
thanks for writing Jhanny, i can’t give u any definitive advice as it seems you are basically saying you would like a Thai woman as a mate rather than a European/Western woman, based on a number of trips to Thailand. i can certainly, certainly understand this. part of the reason, as you’ve found out, is that Thai women seem to understand that IT IS OK TO BE FEMININE. they do not have to put on any “masculine” attributes or compete for positions of power in business, creative arts or personal relationships. could this be why you say “these women complain all the time and are so boring”?
so, you’ve got a basic idea, but you don’t seem to have any particular female in mind, and are trying to make sense of various Thai female-varieties to best suit your aim, which seems to be to find someone who will love you, marry you, relocate to your home country…and not clean you out financially.
if that’s the case (and i’m guessing here), then you have a lot of work to do, Jhanny. you want to take a Thai woman out of her home country, away from her family. you will not be the first, and you may discover that while at first she’s amazed at the new location, after a few months she’s no longer as delightful as before. why? it’s cold as hell, the sun sets in mid-afternoon, the food costs ten times as much as it should and there’s no flavor, and worst of all: the culture (friends/family/language/music etc) has been taken away from her. search other forums and boards and read some stories–you’ll soon learn that in similar cases, the woman has simply gotten on a plane and gone back to Thailand. the estranged husband may well travel there looking for her, angrily shaking a legally binding marriage contract and yelling at officials. Thais will think: here’s another berserk farang shaking paper and yelling at us.
SPEND some time in Thailand. LEARN the language. get to know some women. ask them about their lives. yes, there’s cultural differences between skin tones in Thailand, but NOTHING compared to the cultural difference between the UK and Thailand. in the UK, legal contracts are binding, the rule of law is a known factor…these concepts are given lip-service in Thailand, but in the event, enforcement is largely due to the individuals involved, and believe me, it is NEVER an equal playing field between a farang and a Thai, that’s the way things are.
so yes, i’m telling you to spend time/money/effort to learn about Thailand and Thai ways, but that is the only path to your answer. if you want to fly in, pick out a bride, get hitched and whisk her back to the UK a week later, i’m sure you will find someone willing to at least *agree* to the deal (and “deal” is the right word). it might be the worst mistake you ever made.
as for allocating assets within such a marriage, you’re going to need advice from someone more skilled than i. anyone wanna weigh in? definitely check around on this board, esp the Biz 101 section. you want to find people who have had experience.
good luck.
Jack
View all comments by Jack
Great and funny article! I don’t know what your intention was but I’ve laugh a lot. You should consider writing travel books.
View all comments by Marius
thanks. i actually have written two books, but neither on travel. it’s quite difficult to pitch a book and get a deal, ANY deal, and it’s more work than you can imagine writing the damn thing.
i was working on a travel book-proposal for awhile, but writing about sexual activities is politically incorrect and in today’s internet-meme arena, it may be all you’re remembered for. also, i tend to live in places rather than travel to them, which is a different type of book. nowadays, so many guys are writing Thai-hooker-books that it’s become a cliche.
as i write for a living, i gotta be careful what i sign my real name onto. i’m sure u can appreciate. much enjoyed writing the original post though, and ya know what: it’s quite accurate.
visit by all means, but committing to Thailand is a big step for a Westerners. some have made it with grace and ease, but there are many others for whom the dream of warm weather, true love and blissful life has turned into heartbreak and financial ruin. none of us can see into the future. do your due diligence, and, HAVE. A. BACKUP. PLAN.
JtB
View all comments by Jack B
I found the post to be really disguisting and a misrepresentation of the real thailand. If your Thailand involves Pussy – as you call it – sex for money and all that’s involved – of course your views will be distorted. Too many foreign men in Thailand are absolutely revolting and deserve the diseases they receive from screwing around with young thai women and boys. By the way – I am an american woman living in Thailand – and I LOVE it here. Been here for years now.
View all comments by Sara
how are the thai boys sara? do tell…
View all comments by Smitty
Hi Sara, I agree with you. I LOVE Thailand too.
Food
Underworld
Cheap cigarettes
Kind women
Oral delights
Free Love
Fine times
!
View all comments by AUK
Sara sounds like a bitter farang girl who’s angry she doesn’t have the same power over men in Thailand as she does back in farangland. Thank god a place like Thailand exists where I don’t have to be around people like Sara.
View all comments by Thomas
Sara said “Too many foreign men in Thailand are absolutely revolting and deserve the diseases they receive from screwing around with young thai women and boys.”
@Sara, do the same rules apply to the Farang women who venture to Thailand in search of young cock and in some cases pussy?
If you find one revolting and the other not then you are a pathetic hypocrite.
View all comments by Jimmy Cricket
“By the way – I am an american woman living in Thailand – and I LOVE it here. Been here for years now”
Erm, I tend to think that last sentence is a blatant lie. Most long term residents, are a tad more comprehending of the situation out here.
View all comments by Combover
@Sara.. How’s the ‘peacocking’ coming along? Expert yet?
View all comments by Day Walker
hi,Im a spanish guy,Im about to get married with a tai,she is from SI SRA KED on the west part of the country,I really love tai culture and people.I have been studying tai for 4 years,now I can say that I speak fluent tai,Ive been travelling to Thailand since 2004,due to the martial art of muay thai.I really respect this country,you have to do it,otherwise would be imposible to live here!!.I have a small flat in Suan plu,Bangkok.Now Im looking for a job in Thailand,and I now its going to be very difficult!!! bye guys,wish you the best!
View all comments by carlos
While I admire your apparent sincerity, I question your sense of geography. I believe that Sisaket is in the North East of Thialand bordering Cambodia.
Finding work here in Thialand can be tough, but at least you speak Thai — well done!
Good luck with the marriage thing.
View all comments by werewolf
Good Post,
Pretty much all of the advice you give is spot on!
I lived in LOS for several years before coming back to blighty earlier this year. A few things to throw into the mix;
Try to get back to your home country at least once a year.
Have a back up plan to the original back up plan.
One reply said become Thai. Whilst a good grasp of the language is important, you’ll never be Thai, the copper who stops you because you are foreign will never think your’e Thai, he only wants his 400bht.
The market trader who doubles his prices will never except you as a Thai.
Try too mix in by all means, but remember your roots.
Once again thank you Sara! Its always good to remember what bollocks western birds talk if you diviate from the path they have set out for you. C’mon boys there is a attractive lifestyle to be had in Thailand, just have lots of dollar to back it up. Six months in Thailand, six months at home.
View all comments by The Vet
Er … the question “why marry” is as relevant to Thai women as any other, if not more so. I wish I hadn’t married my last wife (nor the one before her), but I don’t see the “answer” in marrying a Thai woman, either. Why bother? I can see how marriage to a farang works for them (especially as they have legal rights to the Thai homestead), but apart from a hazily romantic notion of having a submissive, feminine wife for a change (instead of some issue-centric harpie like “Sara”) I really think you’re better off living here when and as you can without making marriage a motivator.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Sara, as simply as I can say this, unless you are a Western educated Thai woman you simply could not survive here as any man’s wife.
A man smart enough to have landed an expat package here would never be able to contribute to your idea of happiness in this environment.
Nor could you be married to a Thai: He’d have “red barreled” you ages ago.
You are most likely a former Peace Corps worker turned restaurateuse, a British or Australian primary school teacher or some version of the classic old greasy diesel-dyke.
Or, as I suspect you are a privileged Thai woman.
I am close friends and more than likely, life partner with a Thai woman I have known for 15 years.
We are not married nor do we plan to get married.
I have taught her the meaning of the term “firing squad bait.”
I suspect that this and for me, the specter of living amongst women of your ilk is what keeps us together.
View all comments by thongsuk
Indeed Werewolf, I’ve been to Sisaket before, it’s not so far from Surin and Ubon, 120 miles or so.
View all comments by hanuman
Yeah, I’m sure “carlos” was just taking the piss… I didn’t want him to go unaknowledged for such an amusing comment. He managed to squeeze a lot of sarcasm into a pretty small space.
View all comments by werewolf
“His dream was moving to thailand and become a playboy, driving around in expensive cars, drink expensive booze and screw model looking girls, but ended up as a mini playboy, bicycler , drinking cheap local beer and jerking off to porn in cheap apartment hotel.” :p
View all comments by Mighty Mouse
I have been living in Thailand for 3 years (Phuket) The article was right on, and well written.
There is also one thing I would like to add when it comes to Thai people in general. Remember this:
What the Thai’s lack in Foresight, they make up in hindsight. They can remember everything they have done, every day for the last 10 years, but cannot make plans or see ahead just one day in advance.
Thailand is great if you are a strong person, who can separate, work, play, etc. IF you are a weak individual that might get caught up in too much of the Sex, drugs or alcohol, then keep Thailand for just vacations and not living here.
Enjoy!
View all comments by Fred
Shit, thats right on the nail!
That is the nearest thing to true wisdom in my book.
People need to be honest to the real reasons they arrive and eventually stay in LOS and its usually the same reason when it all boils down.
Once this is understood it can be kept in check and a successful attempt at life here can be undertaken but it is a learning curve and an education in itself.
Loved the post and nice to see some sound advice coming from the big head rather than the small one that keeps shouting to me!
View all comments by pighoglet